Some thoughts re: this post, because I’m always so confused as to why these heated discussions always center on Daniel. Anon said:
“for so many years, a goodly bulk of this fandom has only [attributed?] Daniel as having any value to the story when he’s attached to Armand, or made him the butt of crazy jokes.”
Again, I’ve been in this fandom online for a decade now and spent a lot of time on websites from the 90′s (@i-want-my-iwtv’s been here since the late 90′s I believe), and honestly? Yeah, people make train jokes. It’s in the nature of fandom to take one trait in a character that people find funny and make jokes about it that are parodic or caricaturish in nature. Is it kinda dumb? Yes. Is it reductive? Yes. Is it not-really-that-funny-the-fifteenth-time? YES.
But I genuinely, hand on my heart, cannot say that I’ve ever felt like people made train jokes any more often than they made pyro jokes, or, jesus christ, blender jokes. Or Nicki’s hands jokes.
Is there a difference between the seriousness of the things being joked about here? Yes. See above – this is in the nature of fandom, and it’s one of the downsides. Characters frequently get reduced to one trait, sometimes in ways that are insensitive, and always in ways that disregard their inner depth. But this isn’t something that is particular to Daniel or reflects how fandom feels about Daniel in particular. The entirety of my experience in the VC fandom indicates that Daniel has consistently been one of the best loved characters, despite the lack of screentime that Anne has given him (a lack which I’ve seen lamented a lot), and has generally been considered one of the “main four” or “main five”, alongside Louis, Lestat, Armand, and sometimes Marius.
As for fandom only being interested in Daniel when he’s with Armand – the only screentime Daniel has is with Armand. Unless you count the framing narrative in IwtV, and he doesn’t even have a name there. Daniel becomes a fully-fledged character in QotD, in which he’s with Armand. That’s the reason he becomes a vampire. And again – I don’t think this is a Daniel thing. It’s a fanfic thing.
I could probably count on one hand the number of Louis fics I’ve read that don’t ship him with Lestat or with anyone, or the number of Pandora fics that aren’t about her relationship with Marius, or the number of Gabrielle fics that focus on her solitary travels. Or even Armand fics that aren’t about him and Daniel or him and Marius (which is a whole other topic). A lot of fanfic is focused on romance, it’s one of the main reasons why people write fic. I really don’t think it has anything to do with a lack of fandom interest in Daniel or any of these characters as people.
wait holdup where are all these people who think daniel is a throwaway? WE NEED A WORD.
IKR? Can we get some Daniel love and support on this post, plz? He puts up with SO MUCH.
Honestly I’ve never seen that be a commonly expressed sentiment in this fandom, and I’ve been here on LJ and tumblr since 2008. But tbh fandom drama/wank usually does involve someone going “everybody / you all are always doing or saying X reprehensible thing”, whether or not that’s actually accurate. If OP could provide examples that would have been more helpful.
//Did someone say give Daniel Molloy love and support!! Mission accepted!! 💜💗💜
Abandoned by their writer this is canon, surname misspelt, continuity of narrative ignored or glossed over – sadly yes. But seen as a throwaway character, I haven’t gotten that impression no. As with most problematic favs (read all of vc characters tbh) he’s not always the most popular but that doesn’t mean he has no fans or merits therein, I think as a character he’d rather be limited edition than popular anyway! As a product of the ‘modern era’ he’s a rarity for the readers to identify with, a modernist human – just as easily he could be us – thrust into the vampiric world. Chased no less. A life or death love story. Even as a vampire he’s not old and crusty like some of the ancients and latterly under Marius’ tender loving care *ahem* has blossomed into a dynamic free thinking member of the coven. Anyone who says ‘Hey Marius, all due respect but No! You’re wrong’ has my vote! But I’m biased I guess being a Daniel mun and all.
He was a key figure in Louis, Lestats and Armands lives. Without him blowing the whistle and publishing Iwtv would L&L have reunited, maybe not. Armand would have survived as a ghost of himself in New Orleans without a striking reporter to stalk no doubt – But he wouldn’t have grown, unfurled in himself in the new age. Or rather gone back to a self he may have been if allowed to grow, mature and live as a mortal in Venice – mischevious, generous with a hint of brass impulse with a leaning for cruelty. The dynamic was off, unbalanced as Armand had the supernatural advantage over his eventual mortal beau, but Daniel wasn’t as much of an innocent as some like to paint him. Not that he deserved what happened to him, of course not but he possibly pre Armand had a unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and let’s face it he went back to the guys place who told him he was a vampire? For a story!! This is not a man that had survival instincts primed.
Marius would have gone to ground, buried under a ton of earth and centuries of guilt and self denial without a broken person to heal. His mondus operandi this caretaker urge. He had tenacity in life and I’m glad to see it survives on on death, well from what little has been mentioned of him in PL and Plroa. More of him in the new book as long as that doesn’t make him Canon fodder, literally of course. Right more than enough cheerleading for Mr Molloy.
I too love the same things about Daniel as you, his unflinching persistence to get what he want is originally what first attracted me to him especially since I was very weak willed when I was younger. But now, though it may have seemed different in the ask, I feel a more maternal instinct towards him rather than a romantic interest, I’d rather see him safe than as my sweetheart. It’s very interesting to watch opinions and feeling towards characters change, like for example how you feel about Claudia. Sorry if this isn’t making sense I tend to ramble
One of the great things about fiction is that we can revisit how we feel about characters at different points in our lives. I know I felt differently about Claudia as I got older. I think I had an idea of what she felt when I first read IWTV, but as an adult I can better understand how devastating it must have been for her, and how frustrating for her ‘parents’ who were unable to help guide her in any significant way re: the fact that she would never physically age ;A;
With Daniel, I admit he’s not one of the characters I engaged with as much as others, so I can’t really speak specifically to your comments about him. You may change your opinion again as you get older, too. I always liked that he seemed to fly by the seat of his pants, and was ballsy enough to just keep asking for what he wanted, knowing Armand wouldn’t give it to him. That even in his darkest moments, he demonstrated an inquisitive nature, and was obviously capable of giving/receiving love. That’s inspiring, at least to me.
He’s one of the first VC characters (Jesse is another one) who we get to spend significant time with in canon as a mortal, and get an idea about what it’s like to get involved with vampires; it can’t be easy to just sit down and be quiet when you have one of these supernatural beings fixated on you!
I feel a more maternal instinct towards him rather than a romantic interest, I’d rather see him safe than as my sweetheart.
^Awww, this is lovely! With fictional characters, we can have it both ways, at different times in our lives, in different parts of canon or in fanfic, we can feel more protective, and in others, we might feel more of a romantic attraction, and sometimes there’s an overlap, it’s fluid.
I think this is why real ppl call their lovers/partners/significant others/etc. the endearing “baby,” or variations of that, it might come from a need to protect someone they see as precious as a family member. Marriage brings ppl together into being chosen family ❤ And of course the vampires maker/fledgling relationships bind them physiologically like family.
mah boi decided to put a bible to good use by pressing flowers w/it, screw actually reading it; plus, he’s immortalizing the flowers (in a dead state), so it’s kinda like he’s vamping them up too, idk
This is actually the last request. Thank you to everyone who asked for something! I hope I was able to make someone at least a little bit happy with my stuff. Love y’all ;*
*prays to the good Lord almighty above that you weren’t joking*
🎂Happy birthday!! 🤗 ——————————— I’m so glad you took me serious because I love this so much. Please do more fanart doodles!! Dan’s absolutely perfect and lmao @ the little armand
Louis & Armand’s child (if raised during the Trinity Gate era) would be, by far, the most loved and well taken care of out of all the ship children, lol.
Daniel & Marius’ kid was a suggestion (I forgot who though…) but I imagine they would be the most ‘arty’ of the bunch and super, duper snide. Not as vindictive as like… Armand and Lestat’s possible offspring, but as much of an ass for sure.
I can’t advise you, as we all have our own ideas about the canon characters, and “how to get them right,” a phrase I disagree with. Have you read all of canon? Do you accept all of canon into your personal headcanon? I wouldn’t force you to accept it all, I don’t accept it all. If we’re working from different text acceptance, there can be no universal “getting the characters right” authority (not even Anne Rice herself “gets the characters right,” according to the opinion of some of her fans). As an example, if I accept everything in The Vampire Armand but you don’t (or you haven’t read it yet), your fic probably won’t include/address anything that happened in TVA. That’s your prerogative as a fic writer. You are not required to include/address anything that you don’t want to.
Since no one can decide definitively if you’ve “gotten them right,” don’t be afraid to get them WRONG! Get them however YOU see them, Anon. And it’s not really that black and white; I’ve read fics where there was characterization I loved, and some that seemed out-of-character to me in the next paragraph (but again, that’s just ONE PERSON’S opinion. Another reader might have loved/hated all of it). It could be that you struggle with dialogue in general, so it might be out-of-character now, but you’ll improve by writing more fics. And like a painting, it may not be your failure; you might purposely invest more attention/effort on some aspects of your fic than on others, again, that’s
^Here’re two paintings done in different styles, Morisot’s is Impressionist, and Sargent practiced his own form of Realism, with some obvious Impressionist influence. An essay could be written comparing/contrasting these but briefly: just between these two works, you can see that Morisot was less interested in capturing the details that Sargent has, but both portraits are evocative to me in their own way. There’s a breathless kind of anticipation in both. They both look like women I would love to get to know better! The Sargent one might have been painted on commission, idk about the Morisot one, but in the case of a commissioned work, there is a dialogue between the artist and the commissioner. When I’ve commissioned fanart, the artist will aim to meet my requirements, but ultimately, art is nebulous, and I’ve always been pleasantly surprised by the choices my commissioned artists make within the limitations of the request!
Bc here’s the thing, fanfic is for free. And no matter how you write them, even if you just copied text out of canon, there will be ppl who will tell you you’re getting the characters wrong. Again, the actual published author “gets them wrong,” according to some fans. So if she can’t write her own characters “right,” then, like Anne herself, you’re not obligated to appease anyone except yourself.
Here are a few “advice” pairings, with narrow-minded advice first and open-minded advice second.
“Make sure to include a paragraph about Armand’s physical appearance or else he’s not really in it!!!”– Dye Armand’s hair purple. Have Daniel comment about how striking the color is against his skin. Write Daniel as a POC. Write Armand as if he was able to age, make an AU so that Daniel is the vampire who approaches 50 year old Armand.
“Make sure to address Marius’ anger management issues!!!” – Write an AU where Marius didn’t turn Armand, maybe they met as vampires on more equal footing. Write that Marius gets angry about dumb inconsequential things like being stuck in transit and the other two tease him about being so impatient.
“Make sure that if there’s any dubious-consent or non-consensual sexual content at all, to condemn it in the narrative!!!!”– Have a PWP with BDSM with all 3 of them that fails laughably and one of them storms out, naked and angry. WHY NOT???
Fiction is a space where we can explore anything and everything and it does not harm anyone.
Inevitably, some ppl won’t like it no matter what you do, so please yourself.
Whatever you’re writing:Write the fic you want to read! Here’s your permit:
All that said, I do ask for specific and trusted ppl’s advice when I’m writing a fic if I think they’ve got good ideas bc they’re invested in those characters, maybe they’ve even written fics about those characters. I’m working on a fic that I had to ask a few ppl privately about bc I wanted to bounce my ideas off of them, and gain a little insight as to my specific fic situation, but I wasn’t looking for their permission to write what I’m writing.
Stuff I personally would like to see explored re: Armand, Daniel, and/or Marius:
some backstory on Daniel’s mortal life
some Difficult Conversations in any combination of those three characters discussing their past relationships
some closure on things, agreement/forgiveness may not be possible, but some closure would be great.
some fluff in any combination of those characters, they’ve had so much suffering already
I always like the fanon that Daniel has glasses even though he doesn’t need to wear them now, bc reasons
give them roles in a story that move the plot along substantively
I-want-my-IWTV 