-My poor baby didn’t have the oportunity to leave her own life and be genuinely happy-
Actually, in the first version of IWTV, Claudia wasn’t killed off by the Parisian coven (from the Vampire Companion):
“In the first version of [IWTV], Claudia eventually goes off with three vampire brothers whom she meets in Paris. She does not die. As such, it was as if Rice had attempted to give her daughter a form of immortality. Rice, however, experienced psychological problems that cleared up only after she had rewritten the ending – by killing off Claudia and taking Louis through an experience of intense grieving. This version was much more cathartic for Rice.”
One could say that killing her off for the sake of Louis’ development was harsh, and it is known as the Stuffed into the Fridge trope. Just bc it’s a trope doesn’t make it any less effective, tho!
“A character is killed off in a particularly gruesome manner and left to be found just to offend or insult someone, or to cause someone serious anguish. The usual victims are those who matter to the hero, specifically best buddies, love interests, and sidekicks.”
-What if Claudia wasn’t killed by the Parisian coven. Would Louis leave her for Armand anyways?-
That was his intention, that she was satisfied with her new companion and that he would still see them, still communicate with her. You don’t go through that kind of relationship (I think the word “beloved” in movie!IWTV was perfect, bc they’re closer to eachother than those in a brother-sister or father-daughter relationship).
Louis always wanted to see Claudia happy and satisfied, and he beat himself up a lot for his failures in that. When it became clear that he was torn between her and Armand, it was Claudia who brought Madeleine into the picture and it was only after a lot of argument (and Armand’s influence, which Armand admitted to later) that Louis gave in to Claudia’s request to turn Madeleine for Claudia.
Louis and Claudia’s last real conversation in IWTV together was about this (under the cut, for length, abbreviated here), and you can see that they’re both not thrilled with the separation but that it has to happen.
Claudia: But do you
truly understand what you are choosing in Armand?
Louis: It’s meant to be. It’s almost
that sort of direction… He alone can give me the strength to be
what I am. I can’t continue to live divided and consumed with misery.
Either I go with him, or I die. And it’s something else, which is
irrational and unexplainable and which satisfies only me…
Claudia: Which is?
Louis: That I love him
Claudia: No doubt you do, but then, you could love even me.
Louis: Claudia, Claudia.
Claudia: I only hope that when you have need of me, you can find me… That I can get back to you…I’ve hurt you so often,
I’ve caused you so much pain.‘
Possibly a very unpopular opinionbut: I don’t think Madeleine and Claudia were sexual w/ each other in the mortal sense, but there was more to them than a mother-daughter relationship. So Yes, I think she and Madeleine could have been happy together in a way that was impossible for Claudia and Louis.
I don’t think Claudia’s pursuit of Madeleine was purely for a platonic mother-daughter relationship. That may have been part of it, and it was how she sold it to Louis because he couldn’t perceive Claudia as more than his daughter or as an adult trapped in a little body who would be capable of being involved in a romantic way with anyone, and she needed him to actually do the work for her since she was unable to perform the Dark Gift herself (and I do think she tried before asking him).
While it may not have been a relationship in a more conventionally romantic sense (I don’t believe they had anything sexual, in the mortal sense, going on), I do think Claudia/Madeleine was a ship of sorts, more of an emotional relationship. Claudia was the one in control, she was comparatively older and stronger in personality.
Hit the jump, cut for length.
-Bc I feel like her searching for answers was her equivalent of teenage years, she was angry with the world.-
She had every right to be angry! Not their intention, but her “parents” condemned her to an eternity of body dysmorphia and being perceived as smtg she was not, potentially worse than death. Similar things happen in real life, too, ppl are born with syndromes that cause them to appear “disfigured” or “underdeveloped” to society at large, and they too, may be angry with the world or their own parents for that. Teenagers going through puberty AND adults long past that phase can have body horror and be frustrated that their external physical vessels do not match who they are inside. From what I understand of it, there are many forms of body dysphoria.
Even w/o the body issues, she still would have sought answers to the questions Louis had asked. He didn’t seem to have any body dysphoria but he had plenty of questions beyond any equivalent of a teenage phase. They were both extremely frustrated at the lack of answers.
-But towards the end she has accepted that not all her questions have answers and she seems less frustrated with her condition, for me this is when she reaches adulthood.-
That’s life! Not all of our questions will be answered, but she at least seemed to have achieved some inner peace with not having the answers.
She may have reached adulthood long before that, when she decided to assassinate Lestat for his treatment of her. She wanted revenge on the world, so she took it out on the one who seemed most responsible for her existence. That seems like an adult decision to me, to kill the person who gave you life. But then, she may not have been physiologically capable of ever “reaching adulthood” since the human brain doesn’t finish development until around 20-25 yrs old [X].
Louis and Claudia’s
last real conversation in IWTV together:
“`But do you truly understand what you are choosing in Armand?’ [Claudia said.] I turned away from her. There was something stubborn and mysterious in her dislike of [Armand], in her failure to understand him. She would say again that he wished her death, which I did not believe. She didn’t realize what I realized: he could not want her death, because I didn’t want it. But how could I explain this to her without sounding pompous and blind in my love of him. `It’s meant to be. It’s almost that sort of direction,’ I said, as if it were just coming clear to me under the pressure of her doubts. `He alone can give me the strength to be what I am. I can’t continue to live divided and consumed with misery. Either I go with him, or I die,’ I said. `And it’s something else, which is irrational and unexplainable and which satisfies only me… ‘ “
`Which is?’ she asked.
`That I love him,’ I said.
`No doubt you do,’ she mused. `But then, you could love even me.’ ”
`Claudia, Claudia.’ I held her close to me, and felt her weight on my knee. She drew up close to my chest. “
`I only hope that when you have need of me, you can find me …’ she whispered. `That I can get back to you … I’ve hurt you so often, I’ve caused you so much pain.’ Her words trailed off. She was resting still against me. I felt her weight, thinking, In a little while, I won’t have her anymore. I want now simply to hold her. There has always been such pleasure in that simple thing. Her weight against me, this hand resting against my neck.
^ I did this last night but now that I know it’s @i-want-my-iwtv ‘s birthday I dedicate this trash musing to you, you wonderful person. ❤ Enjoy and incestuous vampire birthday laugh.
The fact that this book exists at all is too funny, but the VC version of it is… just… besides, Gabrielle “Ew Don’t Call Me ‘Mother’” de Lioncourt is partially at fault here okay???! And Lestat, your Oedipus is showing…
btw that’s Armand in the doorway… the real reason Lestat wouldn’t let him join them…
Alright, I managed to fill your request, hope this satisfies you! I tried to give you what you asked for, but to really make this ship work, I would need to write SO much more, since it is a tough ship to ship, with neither of them really willing to /completely/ overlook or forgive their past behavior towards each other, but this is a step in the right direction.
Takes place after Prince Lestat. Here’s an excerpt of A Brief Reprieve:
What can I do to make you love me?” He whispered.
“Are you kidding me? I do love you!” I scoffed, planting a little kiss on top of his head. “You want a certificate? Want it engraved on a plaque?” I said, nosing into his hair.
“Be serious, Lestat.”
“I’m dead serious. Undead serious.” I laughed, leaning back and pulling him to lay back against me.
Armand gazed up at me in silence, a soft smile on his face, then looked back at the fire. What did he want from me? We had just spent the entire evening together, killed together, and then curled up together in front of a roaring blaze as the snow fell outside the window. He felt good in my arms, all collected up and warm. What could be better? Aside from the throbbing pain in my head. That left something to be desired.
“How does it feel right now?” He said. He stared at the fire.
“What?”
“You know. Holding the Sacred Core.”
“Good Lord, don’t call him that. It inflates his ego and I’ll get a splitting headache.”
“There isn’t room enough for all that ego in there, is there?” Armand chuckled, tapping at my forehead. I took his hand and kissed the fingertips.
“Sometimes there really isn’t.” I sighed. It was true, Amel was my own permanent backseat driver. For now, he was murmuring to himself, but it was growing louder. Soon, he would want to be included in whatever I was doing.
I think that’s a valid theory! I’m not sure I would use the word “concubine,” since that would imply that she was coerced into it due to her status on the plantation. My headcanon is that if she was in a relationship w/ him, she was willing, and not coerced into it, based on fanon that she was raised w/ him, and they were always very close and mutually respectful, even though he was her plantation master in title.*
We see little of their interaction in the movie, so it’s impossible to say definitively, but it appears that she was not afraid of him before he was turned, could sense the change in him, and was genuinely concerned about him with more than a servant’s required amount of care.
Unfortunately we can’t talk about Louis/Yvette w/o bringing up the way he ended that relationship – rather badly (and I’m using a little levity in the pic below bc it’s very grim, upsetting, so many other words for how awful it is, but if anyone is offended, I apologize in advance. This is the way I choose to engage w/ the material, so Unfollow if you need to, I understand)
After he kills her, Louis carries Yvette out of the house bridal-style, a reversal of the carrying-over-the-threshold tradition that newlywed men do w/ their living wives to signify that she is welcome and a necessary part of their home and life together.
Louis carries Yvette OUT before he burns down the big house, so that she can be returned to her people (and family members, probably) and given the proper religious rites, funeral arrangements, etc. Conversely, he knows he doesn’t deserve any of that since he’s going straight to Hell; he intends to pay for her life (really, taking her life is the worst thing he’s done so far, especially considering their implied ship and the way he took her life) with his own. He knows that killing an innocent is terrible, even worse that she was someone he loved! He succumbed to desire, fed his vampire nature, and that finally sealed his damnation: “This place is cursed. Damned! And yes your master is the Devil!”
Fun fact: Brad Pitt and Thandie Newton (Yvette) were dating during the filming of IWTV. They are both professionals, but if my boyfriend had to basically act like he metaphorically raped and murdered me, or I had to do the same to him, pretty sure it’d kill the romance somewhat. [X]
Hit the jump for moar, cut for length.
There is some fanon out there that Yvette was raised along with Louis, that they had real history together and cared deeply for each other ❤ So the idea of them becoming closer than that would make sense. Yvette NOTICED his daytime absence in the fields, and seemed to want him back out there. She seems to genuinely care about him: “Are you still our master at all? You must send away this friend of yours… they’re frightened of him. And they’re frightened of you.” I headcanon that they had a good relationship prior to his turning, maybe the best possible relationship between two ppl of such different stations at that time.
This doesn’t seem like the face of someone required to be concerned for her boss, it seems like the face of a lover or family member, someone very close who senses something is very “off” about Louis, more even than when he was drinking and throwing himself at whores; she wants to help and probably thinks she knows him well enough to be able to talk some sense into him ;A;
In movie!IWTV: Louis’ killing of Yvette seems to also be a metaphor for giving in to sexual urges, basically a metaphorical rape in how it’s nonconsensual :[
We see him struggling with it and trying to make Yvette leave him alone, even ordering her to leave: “That will be all, Yvette.” (which he can barely even say, so consumed w/ hunger) but she deliberately disobeys: “I will not go unless you listen to me!” Again, does not seem like the kind of interaction between a plantation owner and his servant.
He looks like he’s about to receive Holy Communion in the shot above, his eyes closed almost in prayer, he’s probably thinking about everything Lestat’s told him, and How wrong can this be when it seems so right? VERY WRONG.
*So my answer is based on their 100% consensual relationship, but books could be (and have been!) written on the pressures of a slave being coerced into a relationship with the plantation’s owner, and I’m not going there.
Ok but Claudia called Armand Louis’ “companion” and it’s p obvious that Armand wants to fuck Louis and then she asks for Madeline as a “companion” and this is probably a gross thought cause Madeline is like “I want a daughter who can’t die” and Claudia is (in appearance) a child but could she be a lesbian?
I know she pines after an adult body but could it be more than that? Could she want a woman to sleep with?
This is a fascinating idea and I have thought about it myself quite a bit.
Possibly a very unpopular opinionbut: I don’t think they were sexual w/ each other in the mortal sense, but there was more to them than a mother-daughter relationship.
I don’t think Claudia’s pursuit of Madeleine was purely for a platonic mother-daughter relationship. That may have been part of it, and it was how she sold it to Louis because he couldn’t perceive Claudia as more than his daughter or as an adult trapped in a little body who would be capable of being involved in a romantic way with anyone, and she needed him to actually do the work for her since she was unable to perform the Dark Gift herself (and I do think she tried before asking him).
While it may not have been a relationship in a more conventionally romantic sense (I don’t believe they had anything sexual, in the mortal sense, going on), I do think Claudia/Madeleine was a ship of sorts, more of an emotional relationship. Claudia was the one in control, she was comparatively older and stronger in personality.
can I hijack/add to this? I think we can simplify the answer to this question a little if we go by canon, that is: the vampires aren’t actually sexual in the conventional sense, ever. This doesn’t mean that the emotions behind romantic love/sensual love isn’t a factor and I don’t think there’s anything in canon contradicting the idea of the two of them having the kind of sensual relationship the vamps enjoy; sharing blood, kissing etc. However I do think Madeleine was too mad to have any real awareness beyond wanting her daughter back in some form and while Claudia needed an assistant, a ‘companion’, I personally think she was too angry/bitter at this point to have room for Madeleine in her heart at all. If she wasn’t so hurt, I think she could have loved her in the typical taboo-defying way all Anne’s vamps seem to do. There isn’t really any definitive labels you could put on them as it is, beyond ‘vampire’ – as I read it anyway^^.
Just my two cents.
Good addition, good points!
I think Madeleine was fairly mad as a new vampire, and if she had been given more time, she might have regained some sanity under Claudia’s tutelage. Yes, Claudia was a bit angry/bitter herself as Armand had his claws in Louis at the time. Claudia had to rush the acquisition of Madeleine because she sensed that the rug was about to be pulled out from under her.
Over time, Claudia might have gained a sense of peace with Madeleine, in guiding her through things, and then the two of them could have explored the world together. And possibly shared that canon sensuality that Ricean vampires can have, which is free of taboos, as you pointed out.
Ok but Claudia called Armand Louis’ “companion” and it’s p obvious that Armand wants to fuck Louis and then she asks for Madeline as a “companion” and this is probably a gross thought cause Madeline is like “I want a daughter who can’t die” and Claudia is (in appearance) a child but could she be a lesbian?
I know she pines after an adult body but could it be more than that? Could she want a woman to sleep with?
This is a fascinating idea and I have thought about it myself quite a bit.
Possibly a very unpopular opinionbut: I don’t think they were sexual w/ each other in the mortal sense, but there was more to them than a mother-daughter relationship.
I don’t think Claudia’s pursuit of Madeleine was purely for a platonic mother-daughter relationship. That may have been part of it, and it was how she sold it to Louis because he couldn’t perceive Claudia as more than his daughter or as an adult trapped in a little body who would be capable of being involved in a romantic way with anyone, and she needed him to actually do the work for her since she was unable to perform the Dark Gift herself (and I do think she tried before asking him).
While it may not have been a relationship in a more conventionally romantic sense (I don’t believe they had anything sexual, in the mortal sense, going on), I do think Claudia/Madeleine was a ship of sorts, more of an emotional relationship. Claudia was the one in control, she was comparatively older and stronger in personality.
What an interesting ship that could have been, too. Daniel could have brought out Louis’ sense of humor, which he DOES have. Daniel basically did ask Louis to turn him and got majorly rejected. Louis was only interested in a kayak for one at that time, or to draw Lestat out from wherever he was by painting him as a horrible monster to provoke him into breaking out a can of whoop-ass or correct the record, or both.
I-want-my-IWTV 
