For the most part, yes, I am grateful for that blessing EVERY DAY. Seriously. Every SJW™ argument that passes my dash, I breathe easier when I see that it’s not for OUR fandom.
Fiction =/= Reality. Fiction has been used for centuries to explore and investigate things we love about Reality, things we don’t understand, even things we find repulsive about Reality. Fiction is in fact Speculative Reality: “What if X happened to Y? How would that improve our understanding of X and Y?”
To investigate the text thoughtfully is one thing, but our fandom veterans -myself included- can see that a lot of this SJW Culture™ seems more about “calling out,” choosing a Problematic™ topic to battle with (there are tons in our canon to choose from!) and using that as an excuse to attack, rather than the desire for a rational discussion. They often do this in the name of Righteousness (for popularity? Or just their own satisfaction?), but there are so many Problematic™ topics that are NOT simply black or white, topics which have been argued about long before the internet, and will continue to be argued about forever! I’ve seen good blogs deactivate (or go on hiatus) for being dogpiled for the slightest headcanon or SJW disagreements, and that’s not what I want to promote in our fandom, regardless of who’s right.
PSA: If you ever see one of my posts that gets you all fired up like “Ooooh she is so wrong about this and I’m gonna lay the SMACKDOWN now!” just know that I do not, as a general policy, engage in public SJ debate. I might be willing to discuss things privately if you approach me in a respectful manner with facts to back up your claims. I don’t run this blog for Social Justice™ points. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE™ POINTS.
This is a gr9 question! NOT an easy answer. And I think you got your question across just fine 😉
AR deserves more credit* than you might think, for the way she jumps around through the series, shedding light on the previously established timeline via different POVs, or just having a character revisit the same scene. Sometimes she also does “Retroactive continuity,” or “retcon” for short: “the alteration of previously established facts in the continuity of a fictional work.”
*Actually, some might argue that when she does this it offers frustratingly conflicting views on previous events, hence, the Unreliable Narrator issues we have throughout the VC.
Anon: “…as much as I love these vamps I feel like
gradual character development isn’t really present, it seems to come suddenly and all at once instead.”
So here’s the thing, in the VC, the publication dates of the books ARE NOT NECESSARILY aligned with the chronological timeline of the set of stories described in the books. (This Timeline I found seems pretty accurate.)
IWTV (published 1976) lays out Louis’ story (between approx. 1791 – 1975).
TVL (published 1985) is Lestat’s story (between
approx.
1766 – 1985) plus the origin story of the vampires (Ancient Egyptian times,
approx.
4000 BC).
QOTD (published 1998) is Lestat’s story in 1985, it was a whirlwind Bad Romance.
TOBT
(published 1992) is Lestat’s Body Dysmorphic Disorder episode, takes place in 1991.
And so on…
TL;DR, I see clear character development when I take in the larger view of all the stories. Some of the later canon books I might have preferred not to have happened, but OH WELL.
But character development in fictional characters (as with actual real people) =/= a clean line of improvement or deterioration. Lestat and Armand have both improved over time in many ways, but they’ve also lost good qualities. Lestat’s definitely lost a few marbles along the way.
Hit the jump for a little more, & spoilers.
For brevity, just gonna answer your question re:
“how the vamps change overtime, character wise? For example, say Lestat in TVL vs Lestat in body thief? Or even Armand in IWTV vs Armand in the later books.”
Lestat:
TVL!Lestat is feisty, freshly resurrected, appetite for destruction, wants to “correct the record” of IWTV by sharing the secrets that he couldn’t in IWTV, and establish himself as the actual protagonist of the series.
Approx. 10 years later in the timeline of the books, TOBT!Lestat is suffering emotionally from the blowback of what happened after sharing that information and trying to be a big shot, and he’s got ghost!Claudia on his back prodding him to consider whether he even deserves to continue vampiring ;A; when he’s so weak against his own impulses. He tries to suicide, and when that doesn’t work, has a renewed sense of belonging in the world. Then in TOBT, he fucks up pretty royally, relies on one best friend to help him get things back to normal, and then almost destroys that friendship by selfishly Forced-Dark-Gift-paying-it-forward. So I’d say that’s a lot of character development.
Armand:
IWTV!Armand was supposed to be intimidating and shrouded in mystery, the teacher/mentor for Louis that Lestat refused to be. Later, when we get Armand’s backstory in TVL, TVA, and B&G, we see his origins and how he got to be the manager of the Theatre Des Vampires, and however intimidating he might have been to Louis, that wasn’t remotely close to what he was like as the leader of the Children of Darkness, Parisian Chapter. So he’s had to adapt to alot of harsh situations, and find some sense of inner peace along the way.
Lestat and Armand are almost 2 sides of the same coin; Lestat was forced into the Dark Gift, Armand begged for it. Lestat had to learn how to vampire alone as an orphan, Armand had an overbearing teacher and was then kidnapped by a cult.
They’ve both had to deal with finding peace and a place for themselves in a world that doesn’t really need or want them, a struggle many of us readers can identify with as being part of our own character development over time.
That’s a really tough question! When I read the books I read them all in MY voice, which sounds like an 11 yr old girl’s. So that wouldn’t work.
Probably gonna get alot of disagreement on this and that’s fine, bc voice casting is even MORE subjective that acting casting but I’ll give it a shot anyway. Reblog w/ your own ideas, and try to include links to vids.
Lestat – His voice is actually not that low, bc he was turned at 20-21, but it gets higher-pitched when he raises his voice. Has that slightly ragged singer’s voice edge to it. Can do a wide range, though, can imitate voices, musical notes, animal sounds, etc. Usually to perturb others.
Lestat will go up to Armand and say something like, “Ooooh Marius, paint me like one of your Italian boysssss…” in Armand’s voice which is always amusing, whatever reaction he gets.
(I didn’t include PL characters for the sake of brevity)(You can add them in the comments)(I also didn’t find good vid examples for all of these, sorries)
Louis – A mellow, calming voice. He can silence a room with a concise and gentlemanly eloquent statement. In canon, it’s mentioned more than once that you can hear his French accent. He himself doesn’t notice it, of course, bc he’s Mr. Pointe du Lacking-Any-Vanity-Whatsoever. Louis Garrel would be a good pick.
Armand – I’ve always felt like the Smashing Pumpkins’ Billy Corgan was very Armand in his singing voice, he has all the anguish and beauty that is Armand. In his speaking voice, it’s soft, and you can hear something broken there, but it’s smooth, controlled.
Daniel – Has a slight vocal growl, like River Phoenix (Or maybe Aaron Tveit), and altho he has a relatively low voice, he’ll always sound like he’s 20 on the phone.
Marius – Michael Fassbender, @sheepskeleton made me see it and I can’t unsee it. A commanding but gentle teacher’s voice.
David – As an old man, he had that perfect older Dad-vibe; comforting, ex-adventurer, wise, with more than a touch of charming sass. So Kurt Russell would be a good voice, but he needs the noticeable British accent.
post-TOBT David is David Gandy. He’s got the British voice, the charm, etc.! Young or old, David’s laugh is that old-man whiskey laugh, mostly air!
Gabrielle – She has a dignity about her and it comes through in her voice. Her laughter sparkles, but it’s rare. She has a very commanding Mom Voice, the kind where she can yell w/o raising her voice. Gonna go with fan favorite Charlize Theron. Or Nicole Kidman, or Michelle Pfeiffer, obviously, too.
Bianca – Scarlett Johansson. @everlastingporcelain has convinced me that Scarlett = Bianca and I can’t unsee/hear it. Sass, charm, vocal growl, wholesomeness, and an advanced maturity.
Lestat: Whaaaat?! How dare you, what are you implying, honestly, Marius, not EVERY blasphemous heartbreaking work of staggering genius is my fault.
Armand: You shared the pic on your FB.
Lestat: That proves exactly nothing.
Daniel: You captioned it, “LOOK WHAT I DID”
Lestat: …
Lestat: I took the picture.
Marius: In the daylight?
Lestat: …
Lestat: Timer feature *smirks*
All: (silence)
Lestat: (silence)
Marius: We don’t believe you. Please, PLEASE stop trying to rile human beings.
Lestat: None of you have one ounce, not one droplet of fun in you. Except for Louis and David. And Gabrielle. *grins, winks* Because ME *points at himself*
[this was re:my recent Nicolas casting post] Thanks! Glad to know someone appreciated the effort in rounding those up ;]
I searched AR’s FB page re: “someone suggested Kit Harrington as Nicolas to Anne and she loved the idea,” and didn’t find it 😛 Has anyone else seen that? I know she’s a big GoT fan, but idk about Kit playing Nicolas. Kinda big, isn’t he? Not sure if I believe that AR was into that suggestion, but hey, it’s possible! Maybe she was just being supportive?
But he is a good actor, and I do also approve of him shirtless so let’s get him a job somehow…
THANK GOODNESS you’re back and you’re responding so rationally! See? More info is the cure for jumping to conclusions. I’m glad that I was able to clear up a lot of the issues in my usual eloquent and honest way ;]
You’re forgiven for lashing out. Hyperbole is out there in the world, take this as a learning experience to not let it rile you so easily.
And it took me at least 3 hours to write that reply so it’s even better to know it was worth it.
Next time, message me privately, rather than lash out creepily on Anon.
Yes, you did change my policy, for the better. This instance was the last straw after a few prior attempts to “call me out” on things. It reminded me that this should be fun for me, I’m not paid to do it, I have no obligation to anyone (aside from the Tumblr guidelines of appropriate use). I try to make sure my facts are correct before stating anything definitive, and I admit when I don’t know smtg.
However, few ppl would come back and admit that they were a little hasty before, so that is much appreciated. Thanks for doing that. It was a huge relief.
When smtg upsets you, first do some introspection, why are you letting this rile you? Then, calmly, do some investigation and/or ask for info in a respectful way.
[2nd ask sent]– almost entirely just a complete theft of the intellectual property that they started as fan-derivative works of. so i don’t know if half of what op claims is fair? because it’s true that anne rice chased away her online fandom with a broom, but it’s not totally baseless given the circumstances. she’s not just some crazy old lady imo. sorry again, i don’t want to start a fight but i don’t agree.
Okay, so this is a HUGE topic and I could write an essay and a half on all the issues raised, but it DOES sound like you’re trying to start a fight, partly bc you submitted this on Anon (and you started w/ “this is ooc” so it’s clear you’re an RPer, infringing on the VC copyright through RP, which is writing fanfic, for free!) and partly bc of your general tone, which in all fairness I could be misreading.
I’m not sure you totally understand AR’s War on Fanfic in the early-mid 90′s, or the actual points raised in the post you disagree with so strongly, so that’s why I’m taking the time to answer.
However, for everyone’s future reference: my policy has been to answer every Ask I get but that policy is changing NOW. If I get the feeling that a message is provocative in a negative way, I won’t answer it publicly. Privately, I might, if you come off Anon.
^Louis doesn’t really want to get involved in this discussion. It’s ok, just sit there and look pretty, hun, we’ll keep this brief.
asked a question, “Why is there so little Vampire Chronicles fan activity or content?” [X], and then;
2)@the-savage-nymph-art replied to that question [X]. Brilliantly and succinctly, I would add. They even provided one of the purposes of fanfic: to share headcanons. Whether in an AU, or PWP, etc., we’re exploring the characters through storytelling.
What @the-savage-nymph-art didn’t mention is that exploring canon through writing/sharing fanfic (both for-profit and not-for-profit, I assume) predates AR’s War on Fanfic. You can do your own research on that, but here’s a good article to start with, by Ewan Morrison.
Monika Bartyzel: talks about derivative works based on fanfic (it mentions 50 Shades & Twilight, too), but focusing on the Mortal Instruments. The thrust of the argument is that TMI was TOO derivative:
“…But until a story is willing to break through the boundaries of its inspiration and drop the mimicry in favor of its own voice, it will always be as derivative as its origins — no matter how many names you change.”
(^So there is a difference between fanfic that shares headcanons to explore, and fanfic that seems to merely mimic the canon it’s derived from.)
Anon, Anne Rice no longer has an issue with Fanfic. I don’t remember what year this was posted on FB but it was, and she hasn’t mentioned it since, that I’m aware of.
^So really, with that, the argument is kind of over.
But I am definitively saying, I run this blog as respectfully of Anne Rice as I can, w/ just a little light teasing bc we do that even to our own parents! she’s given us a great gift in the VC.
This blog is about positivity and inclusivity, and arguing over whether a derivative work is worthy of being considered worth standing alone as a separate work, that’s for the courts to decide on a case-by-case basis as we define what is a “derivative” work. There are some fanworks that I love so much that I WISH they were canon, that I WISH I could buy as a beautiful physical book to repay the creators for bringing me Such Feels!
Hit the jump for just a little more.
Anon’s argument has 2 points:
A) That fanfic written for fandom and then altered by changing the character names, etc. (aka ”filing the serial numbers off”, “Hermione” becomes “Eloise” or whatever) so that it can be sold for profit, is infringing on the copyright of the original creator. Anon mentions 2 examples that are making tons of money. I’ve heard of those series and the accusations of their beginnings as fanfic. I haven’t read them or followed the reviews about them though, so I can’t comment on whether or not they really are derivative works.
B) That Anne Rice is wrongfully accused of being “just some crazy old lady” in defense of the her VC copyright.
As per Anon’s point A), this is a nebulous thing, copyright law is still being worked out for it. It’s slowly developing on a case-by-case basis, and sometimes it’s settled out of court. Look at the Unofficial Harry Potter Encyclopedia case, for example. Not a fanfic, but still, a fanwork. The judge ruled that the
Unofficial Harry Potter Encyclopedia could be published for profit, in an abridged version of how it was originally intended to be, bc it served as a reference work, so it had value, but in its entirety it would have been
unfair competition w/ a similar work that J.K. Rowling intended to release (and she is still working on, years later).
As for your point B):
Nowhere in @the-savage-nymph-art‘s reply is Anne Rice referred to as “just some crazy old lady.” In fact, it was only you, Anon, who called her “dickish.”
Actually, there are several mocking references in @the-savage-nymph-art‘s commentary to those who write fanfic, in the usual Tumblrland Hyperbole™ kind of way, which is intended to grab your attention and add a little levity to a serious and saddening topic. Don’t you get the joke, Anon? Silliness! Or can you not take it as humorous when smne mentions “your gloriously blushing butt-cheeks” ?
I disagree with you, Anon. Anne Rice has given us an incredible gift. Yes, I have mentioned that she waged War on Fanfic. That’s a fact. It’s actual history.
Fanfic sold for money w/ the serial numbers filed off, (like 50 Shades does to Twilight and the Mortal Instruments *allegedly* does to Harry Potter) well, the creators of the original works have every right to pursue copyright protection! Have they, in these cases? Because the authors of 50 Shades and the Mortal Instruments seem to be doing fine, getting movie deals an all.
Maybe the authors of 50 Shades and the Mortal Instruments were sued and settled out of court.
But maybe, in these cases, the derivative work (as Anon calls them) was sufficiently AU of the fandoms they were adapted from to constitute enough originality to be considered works that stand on their own.
Let’s see what happens when someone writes fanfic w/ the serial numbers filed off based on 50 Shades and the Mortal Instruments!
Oh wait, 50 Shades already has a parody of it, 50 Shades of Black. Let’s get popcorn and see if a legal dispute fires up…
I-want-my-IWTV 