ooc: ok but @obsessional-ram made me think about it for a second and i’m like…you know when u have super major cries where snot drips down ur nose??? replace snot with blood for ricean vampires.
“if you’re labouring under the misapprehension that lestat is cool allow me to correct you, lestat is not cool he is a whiny, needy little cry baby and i love him for it” [x]
Gabrielle/David – Regardless of potential compatibility Lestat would have an opinion on this:
“DAVID’S MY BAE MOM!!!” *huffs*
Gabrielle/Jesse – yes.
Gabrielle/Marius – I think she’d have the same issue w/ him that she had w/ Lestat; Marius is a man of civilization. He builds a big sumptuous nest wherever he lives, w/ all the amenities. She might visit but she’d never stay. Marius holds onto beauty, Gabrielle wants to experience it and search for more. Intellectually they probably would argue all the time, like Marius did w/ Pandora, bc Marius thinks he knows everything about everything but he’s not as “with it” as Pandora and Gabrielle are.
Gabrielle/Pandora – Maybeeee… but Pandora had some serious issues, re: confidence. I don’t remember how or when that was resolved, but she was very dependent on Arjun, in a way that I doubt Gabrielle would tolerate, even in brief moments.
I have come up with a list of things I would like to see in the new Vampire Chronicles film. Any comments and thoughts are welcome! Putting most of the post under a read-more for the sake of length:
The film to be based on The Vampire Lestat with a healthy amount of flashbacks back to Interview with the Vampire, that way the unfamiliar audience understands the context in which the second book was written aren’t left too much in the dark. Completely erasing the first book out of the storyline doesn’t make much sense to me.
Possibly starting the film with bits from Daniel and Louis’ interview and fast-forwarding to Lestat resurfacing in the 80′s (once he is first mentioned)?
I willdefend Antonio 5ever and argue his case as more of a Santino/Armandmashup than intentionally Armand. The QOTD!Armand was so horrendous that I don’t even want to know that actor’s name, apologies to him, it’s not entirely his fault.
Aside from that, there are some excellent points here, check out @firelight-fading‘s ideas, and share w/ your own *u*
[2nd ask sent]– almost entirely just a complete theft of the intellectual property that they started as fan-derivative works of. so i don’t know if half of what op claims is fair? because it’s true that anne rice chased away her online fandom with a broom, but it’s not totally baseless given the circumstances. she’s not just some crazy old lady imo. sorry again, i don’t want to start a fight but i don’t agree.
Okay, so this is a HUGE topic and I could write an essay and a half on all the issues raised, but it DOES sound like you’re trying to start a fight, partly bc you submitted this on Anon (and you started w/ “this is ooc” so it’s clear you’re an RPer, infringing on the VC copyright through RP, which is writing fanfic, for free!) and partly bc of your general tone, which in all fairness I could be misreading.
I’m not sure you totally understand AR’s War on Fanfic in the early-mid 90′s, or the actual points raised in the post you disagree with so strongly, so that’s why I’m taking the time to answer.
However, for everyone’s future reference: my policy has been to answer every Ask I get but that policy is changing NOW. If I get the feeling that a message is provocative in a negative way, I won’t answer it publicly. Privately, I might, if you come off Anon.
^Louis doesn’t really want to get involved in this discussion. It’s ok, just sit there and look pretty, hun, we’ll keep this brief.
asked a question, “Why is there so little Vampire Chronicles fan activity or content?” [X], and then;
2)@the-savage-nymph-art replied to that question [X]. Brilliantly and succinctly, I would add. They even provided one of the purposes of fanfic: to share headcanons. Whether in an AU, or PWP, etc., we’re exploring the characters through storytelling.
What @the-savage-nymph-art didn’t mention is that exploring canon through writing/sharing fanfic (both for-profit and not-for-profit, I assume) predates AR’s War on Fanfic. You can do your own research on that, but here’s a good article to start with, by Ewan Morrison.
Monika Bartyzel: talks about derivative works based on fanfic (it mentions 50 Shades & Twilight, too), but focusing on the Mortal Instruments. The thrust of the argument is that TMI was TOO derivative:
“…But until a story is willing to break through the boundaries of its inspiration and drop the mimicry in favor of its own voice, it will always be as derivative as its origins — no matter how many names you change.”
(^So there is a difference between fanfic that shares headcanons to explore, and fanfic that seems to merely mimic the canon it’s derived from.)
Anon, Anne Rice no longer has an issue with Fanfic. I don’t remember what year this was posted on FB but it was, and she hasn’t mentioned it since, that I’m aware of.
^So really, with that, the argument is kind of over.
But I am definitively saying, I run this blog as respectfully of Anne Rice as I can, w/ just a little light teasing bc we do that even to our own parents! she’s given us a great gift in the VC.
This blog is about positivity and inclusivity, and arguing over whether a derivative work is worthy of being considered worth standing alone as a separate work, that’s for the courts to decide on a case-by-case basis as we define what is a “derivative” work. There are some fanworks that I love so much that I WISH they were canon, that I WISH I could buy as a beautiful physical book to repay the creators for bringing me Such Feels!
Hit the jump for just a little more.
Anon’s argument has 2 points:
A) That fanfic written for fandom and then altered by changing the character names, etc. (aka ”filing the serial numbers off”, “Hermione” becomes “Eloise” or whatever) so that it can be sold for profit, is infringing on the copyright of the original creator. Anon mentions 2 examples that are making tons of money. I’ve heard of those series and the accusations of their beginnings as fanfic. I haven’t read them or followed the reviews about them though, so I can’t comment on whether or not they really are derivative works.
B) That Anne Rice is wrongfully accused of being “just some crazy old lady” in defense of the her VC copyright.
As per Anon’s point A), this is a nebulous thing, copyright law is still being worked out for it. It’s slowly developing on a case-by-case basis, and sometimes it’s settled out of court. Look at the Unofficial Harry Potter Encyclopedia case, for example. Not a fanfic, but still, a fanwork. The judge ruled that the
Unofficial Harry Potter Encyclopedia could be published for profit, in an abridged version of how it was originally intended to be, bc it served as a reference work, so it had value, but in its entirety it would have been
unfair competition w/ a similar work that J.K. Rowling intended to release (and she is still working on, years later).
As for your point B):
Nowhere in @the-savage-nymph-art‘s reply is Anne Rice referred to as “just some crazy old lady.” In fact, it was only you, Anon, who called her “dickish.”
Actually, there are several mocking references in @the-savage-nymph-art‘s commentary to those who write fanfic, in the usual Tumblrland Hyperbole™ kind of way, which is intended to grab your attention and add a little levity to a serious and saddening topic. Don’t you get the joke, Anon? Silliness! Or can you not take it as humorous when smne mentions “your gloriously blushing butt-cheeks” ?
I disagree with you, Anon. Anne Rice has given us an incredible gift. Yes, I have mentioned that she waged War on Fanfic. That’s a fact. It’s actual history.
Fanfic sold for money w/ the serial numbers filed off, (like 50 Shades does to Twilight and the Mortal Instruments *allegedly* does to Harry Potter) well, the creators of the original works have every right to pursue copyright protection! Have they, in these cases? Because the authors of 50 Shades and the Mortal Instruments seem to be doing fine, getting movie deals an all.
Maybe the authors of 50 Shades and the Mortal Instruments were sued and settled out of court.
But maybe, in these cases, the derivative work (as Anon calls them) was sufficiently AU of the fandoms they were adapted from to constitute enough originality to be considered works that stand on their own.
Let’s see what happens when someone writes fanfic w/ the serial numbers filed off based on 50 Shades and the Mortal Instruments!
Oh wait, 50 Shades already has a parody of it, 50 Shades of Black. Let’s get popcorn and see if a legal dispute fires up…
Once you taste this, you’ll never go to another tavern again get it? she was gonna poison them she is an evildoer so don’t feel bad for her ok bye.
oh my god she was going to poison them?????
Well in TVL, Lestat talks about how he chooses his victims:
“When [Louis] says I played with innocent strangers, befriending them and then killing them, how was he to know that I hunted almost exclusively among the gamblers, the thieves, and the killers, being more faithful to my unspoken vow to kill the evildoer than even I had hoped I would be? …The whores I feasted upon in front of Louis once, to spite him, had drugged and robbed many a seaman who was never seen alive again.”
So he’s referring specifically to the ones he kills later, but this victim’s line, it seems to me, is implication that she intends to kill them, hence, they’ll “never go to another tavern again.”
Unless she’s really that confident about her tavern’s liquor, in which case, she means they’ll ONLY go to her tavern from now on! But I doubt that, in the context of Lestat’s ability to read minds and his usual aim for evildoers.
Ah, hmmmmmm…. I don’t remember that specifically, and I’m feeling like I should know that…
^Lee Pace as Marius bc of reasons.
… but I can surmise that since he was the only authority figure anyone paid respect to for awhile, that would naturally lead to them speculating on him abusing such status.
Which he did, somewhat, with Armand, when he took him in. I haven’t personally dissected that ship too thoroughly, so I wouldn’t know.
I’ll open this up to the group: Anyone out there have an answer for this anon?
//Haven’t been around long enough to know (only got into the fandom in 2005), but I would guess it’s just what you said.. that maybe his and Armand’s relationship as it came through in TVA and B&G was a negative surprise to people? Especially compared to how favourably he’s portrayed in say TVL/QotD.
ooc: I think it’s partially the later stuff with TVA and B&G, where he comes off as a not-so-nice guy. But back when there were only three books, Marius was the authority figure trying to implement rules for the vampires, so he was an obvious antagonist for The Brat Prince, resident rule-breaker.
I read the books when I was 13 and was like, “wee everyone is hot” but then I reread them at 27 with more scrutiny and formed some vastly different opinions on characters. I realized I didn’t like Marius at all LMAO it’s just because he’s got a personality I’m not fond of in a man.
So I imagine people might have been “eh *grunts & hand waves*” on Marius and that somehow designated him the one to make the villain when it suited. Fandom is not known for having impartial views on anything – now or back then.
^All good reasons, TVA and B&G would have had a big impact on fandom’s perception of Marius.
Later-canon Marius is very… um… he seems to have misplaced some of his marbles.
#marius I leave u alone with my mortal luvvies for 5 DAMN SECONDS WTF
I don’t recall any specific fic where Marius was controlling or abusive though once TVA came out people began to think of him in less of a positive light partly because of Armand’s specific reveals about him and also because he went against his own advice regarding making a vampire of a child (Armand was 17 which was perhaps why he admonished Lestat against such an action, but then how to explain Benji? Benji was made strong, to be sure, because, well, Marius—but he was still very young and Sybele was more than a little addled, so turning her was risky. It was around that time where people began writing more fic examining his darker side.
Do u ever not realize how starved for affection u are till someone hugs u a bit tighter than normal and you find that you really don’t want to let go
I never thought about this scene in this context before, and I don’t know if you were going for seriousness or not, but by this point in the both the film and the novel, Lestat hadn’t had any real affection other than the baiting of the musician for some time.
Thanks! I was indeed going for serious. They have actual irreconcilable differences, but they both still desperately miss how it was in the beginning, when they could both be free to live under the delusion that this setup was in any shape or form “natural" and sustainable. It was the honey-est of honeymoons, for all of them. One happy family.
Claudia was the glue that held them all together, so when she understood the truth of it all and severed ties with Lestat, that’s around when Louis must have, to some extent, as well. In the book, he seems to pull away from both of them emotionally as her frustration and disillusionment grows.
So yes, by this point, Lestat hadn’t had any real affection (aside from the flirting w/ strangers we all know he’s so talented at) other than the baiting of the musician for some time. It appeared that the love between Lestat and the musician was a pale shadow of what he had with Louis and Claudia. That musician seemed to give him the kind of unconditional love that Lestat’s dogs had given him back in the Auvergne. An unquestioning loyalty, which is good, but love from Louis and Claudia was worth more, which is why he didn’t just leave them immediately, but rather stay and taunt them with the idea that he might turn someone else. He was challenging them to fight for his love, in threatening to replace them, he wanted them to beg him to stay. They didn’t.
Did that scene ever happen? Was that another one of Armand’s lies? It doesn’t matter. I wanted to explore the classical motive of David with Goliath’s head, here inevitably twisted, losing its victorious aspect, leaving only the figure of a young boy, holding a severed head.
I hope to God that this story was just something that Armand made up; somehow trying to intimidate the others, displaying the cruelty he could be capable of. This whole section though had me enthralled, the middle section of TVA was some of Rice’s best writing in my opinion, and the image of this–the Botticelli cherub, dressed in dusty and outdated but once opulent 18th century clothing, beneath the Paris streets, the stench of rot, old graves, and the filth of the city permeating through the earth, in a dark room lit by greasy tapers of tallow candles, hacking apart the body of this thing, this abomination as he sees her, this obstacle to his newest fascination, that of Louis, and he will demolish her, just as the hands were removed from the violinist in a mad attempt to reach Lestat again, this devil with an angel’s face capable of Lucifer’s cruelty–its a world of obscenity for its beauty, sublime in its composition of a clash of ideals, and shows like two unlikely titans of evil within the series as the most innocent in the face.
As always, perfectly captured by the wonderful @sheepskeleton
“I tried to grant her fondest wish, that she should have the body of a woman, a fit shape for the tragic dimension of her soul.
Ah, hmmmmmm…. I don’t remember that specifically, and I’m feeling like I should know that…
^Lee Pace as Marius bc of reasons.
… but I can surmise that since he was the only authority figure anyone paid respect to for awhile, that would naturally lead to them speculating on him abusing such status.
Which he did, somewhat, with Armand, when he took him in. I haven’t personally dissected that ship too thoroughly, so I wouldn’t know.
I’ll open this up to the group: Anyone out there have an answer for this anon?
//Haven’t been around long enough to know (only got into the fandom in 2005), but I would guess it’s just what you said.. that maybe his and Armand’s relationship as it came through in TVA and B&G was a negative surprise to people? Especially compared to how favourably he’s portrayed in say TVL/QotD.
ooc: I think it’s partially the later stuff with TVA and B&G, where he comes off as a not-so-nice guy. But back when there were only three books, Marius was the authority figure trying to implement rules for the vampires, so he was an obvious antagonist for The Brat Prince, resident rule-breaker.
I read the books when I was 13 and was like, “wee everyone is hot” but then I reread them at 27 with more scrutiny and formed some vastly different opinions on characters. I realized I didn’t like Marius at all LMAO it’s just because he’s got a personality I’m not fond of in a man.
So I imagine people might have been “eh *grunts & hand waves*” on Marius and that somehow designated him the one to make the villain when it suited. Fandom is not known for having impartial views on anything – now or back then.
^All good reasons, TVA and B&G would have had a big impact on fandom’s perception of Marius.
Later-canon Marius is very… um… he seems to have misplaced some of his marbles.
#marius I leave u alone with my mortal luvvies for 5 DAMN SECONDS WTF
//Okay, this needs to be answered OOC, because my Lestat would have to answer with my personal headcanon, b/c I think Mater is full of shit.
According to canon and Anne/Mater, her vampires do not experience sexual pleasure with their genitals. In QotD, Lestat calls his cock useless, claiming that it can no longer do what it was intended to, or some shit like that (I have a migraine and I’m not looking it up, but I’m sure @i-want-my-iwtv could give you the precise quote because she’s amazing).
Anne of course (typically) reneges on this when she wrote PL, creates a bunch of faulty science bullshit so that Lestat can jizz for science and create Viktor.
In fanon, it’s generally accepted that, yes, the vampires can have sex. There is some variation on this depending on what fic you are reading or who you are RPing with–but it’s generally agreed upon that vampire sex is 100% about the blood and sensuality, and that, even if they aren’t going to orgasm in the traditional sense, they are still going to get something pretty intense out of the entire situation.
There are some pretty amazing fics out there that make sense of all this, but since Vampire Chronicles fan fiction doesn’t technically exist, I can’t help you find them.
For my purposes, sure, Lestat has sex. Plenty of it. And it’s primarily about the blood. But there is also fun to be had with their bodies, and that’s more fun to write anyway, so there you have it.
ooc: ALL OF THIS. Also like… you can’t tell me that vampire sensation is 10x that of a human and expect me to believe that sensual touch does nothing for them. Maybe they can’t reach climax but that’s what the blood is for. Doesn’t mean sexual acts don’t work as amazing foreplay.
ooc: I’ve written about this before at some point I believe, but that’s very much my take on it too. Especially this: ‘you can’t tell me that vampire sensation is 10x that of a human and expect me to believe that sensual touch does nothing for them’
Hell yeah.
^Basically agreed with all 3 ppl here. Respect #Your headcanon may vary on this topic.
Canon doesn’t directly take on whether their dicks even work until the 3rd book, when Lestat says:
“I studied my reflection … and the organ, the organ we don’t need, poised as if ready for what it would never again know how to do or want to do, marble, a Priapus at a gate” – Lestat, Queen of the Damned
So I’ve discussed this topic at length in my tags for it: #asexuality, #asexual, #sex, #sexuality, #lets talk about sex. So check those out for more discussion on it. Ricean vampires still do feel sexual lust, it’s channeled through the experience of taking/sharing blood, and other sensually physical things.
In fanon there is a wide spectrum of whether they can have penetrative sex, some even speculate that their um… output… would be very bloody.
TL;DR: It all depends on your idea of what sex is. There are human couples who are unable (or do not want) to experience penetrative sex, and they can still be intimate with each other in other ways.
Claudia asks Louis about sex in IWTV, and he replies that it “‘…was something hurried…And… it was seldom savored… something acute that was quickly lost. I think that it was the pale shadow of killing.’”
He could have been lying a little to downplay it, so that she wouldn’t feel as bad for missing out on smtg she would never be able to experience, or maybe bc he truly felt that the experience of killing supercedes mortal intercourse. We don’t know bc #unreliable narrator.
ALL THAT SAID, if you prefer to take AR’s word as the gospel for canon, she has been definitive about it:
(there is a space here for no good reason thanks Tumblr!)
I think that reproductive obstacle (vampires are undead, they cannot carry a growing baby inside of dead flesh) is why Anne Rice made the choice that they could BE sexual, but not in a reproductive way.
All of that and I want to add my two cents
If we think about it, they are being “sexual” in a reproductive way. Their reproduction it’s done it by means of blood interchange, it’s the vampire’s way to carry on the species, so to speak. So for me, it makes perfect sense that their sexual act it’s precisely blood interchange as well.
Sex is for reproduction after all (from a biological point of view), intercourse is the human way and blood the vampire way. So sexual organs may not be involved for them, but that’s about as far as the difference has to go, I think. All the other aspects of sex that we add to it wouldn’t have to change or be excluded for them.
So I would say vampires do have sex, they just don’t need sexual organs to do it. And I might say that’s also why they don’t seem to mind genders at all.
// Coming in again, because why not? Not as if I added much the first time around.
Excellent points made by everyone so far! I just had some thoughts on sexual preference that occurred to me.
First off, as everything here, there’s no definite answer to any of this, it’s all up to how any individual interprets it or wants to play it out.
We all know that vampires can canonically find literally anyone attractive (how sexual that is is up for debate), especially when they are after their blood or while they are actually feeding from them. It seems to be impossible to drink someone’s blood without being intimate to some degree, even if the only intent is to kill them. Gender, looks, personality, everything seems to not really matter at that point.
So much for feeding. I think with sexual – or maybe romantic is a better word – preferences, vampires can have those same as humans have, they might just on the whole be more open-minded, in part maybe due to the different views and vision granted by the blood. And, obviously, many of them really discover that they don’t mind genders at all, if they haven’t already figured that out before they were turned.
As far as sexual organs go, I could see that while they are obviously not needed for the intended biological reason of reproduction, they are probably still sensitive spots when handled in pleasurable ways. Sex isn’t just about doing things that lead to climax after all, so for vampires every contact other than the actual blood exchange might well just be a kind of foreplay, but, hey. Foreplay is fun!
@perladivenezia: thank u for that addition, I meant “reproductive” in a mortal way, and you brought up a REALLY GREAT POINT, in how “reproductive” can be considered in a vampiric way.
@darknessmolten: “As far as sexual organs go, I could see that while they are obviously not needed for the intended biological reason of reproduction, they are probably still sensitive spots when handled in pleasurable ways.”
YES. That, plus everything else you added, very well-put.
I-want-my-IWTV 