This amazing actor, now the villan in Star Wars, Adam Driver. He would be a perfect Armand, don’t you think?

Adam Driver is extremely gorgeous and so talented, I really enjoyed him in SW and I’m looking forward to whatever he does in his career!

It took me a moment to make the connection between Adam Driver and Armand, bc the book version of Armand is very different from the IWTV movie version!

In the movie version of IWTV, Armand is played by Antonio Banderas, a tall, dark, masculine vampire of the Old World. I can see where you might see some Adam Driver resemblance there…

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However! In the books, Armand was turned at 17 yrs old*, he has auburn hair, and he is supposed to look more angelic (and androgynous enough to pass for being female, as he says in TVA). 

*“I was perhaps seventeen years old when Marius made me into a vampire. I had stopped growing by that time. For a year, I’d been five feet six inches.” – TVA.

This has been a bigger point of contention in VC fandom than the “Dumbledore said calmly”/”DIDJA PUT YA NAME IN THE GOBLET AFIRE??” issue in Harry Potter fandom 😛 Why Antonio and not smne resembling the canon character? You’ll find some answers in my #defending Antonio tag.

To my mind, I would love to have Adam as a vampire in our series. If we cast him as a more canon-compliant character, I would suggest Santino, Santiago, or even Nicolas de Lenfent. But we probably can’t afford him now *cries*

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thorodinson:

Then God does not exist?

You know, I’ve been thinking about this lately. Since Antonio Banderas played Armand in the IVTV movie and he didn’t looked like the character in the books, a lot of people were disheartened about it, but actually, i think it was divine. Yes, Banderas didn’t look like Armand and there’s a lot of theories on why they choose him, but his performance was so great. It was like a “Dracula version” of Armand, so fancy, so dark, so dramatic, so… charming. I thought it was great. What do you think?

Well you probably know you’re preaching to the choir on that one 😉 

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Most of my thoughts on Antonio!Armand are in #Defending Antonio, so you can check that out.

However, I totally understand that other people were disheartened about it, and I’m not looking to argue with anyone, just saying that I was able to enjoy Antonio!Armand, and I’m glad other people were able to enjoy him, as well ❤

Ok so this has been bugging me for a while so I thought I’d get someone else’s opinion. What kinda accent is Armand supposed to have?

In movie!IWTV, Armand’s origins aren’t explicitly stated, just that he’s an Old World vampire. He could very well be Spanish, that’s Banderas’ actual ethnicity. So we don’t know. Just bc Louis and Claudia meet him in Paris doesn’t mean he’s French; he tells them he’s 400 yrs old, he’s probably lived elsewhere.

On my recent post about Antonio!Armand, @slow-read shared this opinion: “I would like to add that Antonio’s accent also gives one a sense of age, otherness and it sounds (or sounded) exotic to the audience? It was perfect for Armand-the-oldest-living-vampire-in-the-world. *-*” The

ppl behind movie!IWTV might have chosen Banderas and made the character this way rather than a more canon-compliant actor bc they wanted him to be more convincing as

Armand-the-oldest-living-vampire-in-the-world to audiences who had not read the books. Filmmakers then (and now) want a movie to appeal to wide audiences. I was a kid then, but it seems to me that fandom (and specifically, trying to please the fanbase as a primary objective) wasn’t as much of a consideration at that time. 

In the books, Armand comes from a place called Kiev, which according to AR is in Russia and according to the google is in the Ukraine, but idk. Then he spent years in Italy which is where he got most of his mortal education, so he may have picked up some of that accent from his teachers and friends… and then he lived in Paris for many years so he might have consciously tried to pick up some of that accent in order to blend in. 

Anyone is welcome to answer this with what you think Armand’s accent is like!

Hi sorry me again. What are your thoughts on the weird casting choice of Antonio Banderas for Armand in IWTV¿¿? Have you considered….A meme of it!? D:

(@luthi69 beat me to the punch on that one!)

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[WWDITS/IWTV mashup by @luthi69 please reblog from the link or the source]

I admit that I have a lot of nostalgia for Antonio!Armand, so it doesn’t seem as weird to me… I hope the new adaptation(s) have a more canon-compliant Armand bc I think it can be handled in a way that wasn’t possible in the early 90′s, the pedophilia inherent in an adult-looking vampire being in a relationship (of some kind) with a teenage-looking vampire, even though they are ~90 and ~400 years old, respectively.

There were a lot of good reasons for casting a non-compliant Armand, and I talk about it in my #Defending Antonio tag, @vraik captured the taboo aspect of it very well [X]:

HEY. HEY. YOU KNOW WHO I LOVE? 

Antonio Banderas Armand. 

I ranted about this at length once, and realized it might be worth excising that particular section from my recaps and letting it stand on its own. SO LET ME TELL YOU A THING.

“Not only does Banderas give one hell of a performance, clearly entranced by Louis and convinced his ruthlessness is an acceptable means to an end (and then Louis dumps him immediately and Banderas’ crushed look that WHOOPS OVERESTIMATED just destroyed me). It’s really genuine, maybe the movie’s best after Cruise and Dunst, and at least half his dialogue is lifted without change from the books. But all that gets overlooked, because he doesn’t look like a teenager. And there’s a certain fairness to that – Armand’s body adds a dimension to his interactions with others as much as Claudia’s does. But now let me give you a hot dose of context.

In 1994, it was still a pretty common argument to conflate homosexuality with pedophilia, particularly with gay men.  THINK OF THE CHILDREN, Y’ALL. The movie already had to deal with the Claudia/Louis relationship, which only tenuously steps the worst landmines of creepiness, as we discussed, by avoiding physicality and giving mentally grown Claudia all the power. So, the filmmakers maybe didn’t want to stack, on top of that stack of gunpowder, a relationship with yet another underage character, particularly one that so played into existing stereotypes.

Then there’s the fact that, by virtue of the script, Louis’ feelings for Armand are a lot more explicitly tender and obvious than his relationship with Lestat. Back then, it was a big deal if you asked an actor to, gasp, play gay. Heavens forfend. But Banderas, in addition to being a handsome fellow and a marketable star, had also appeared in Philadelphia in 1993 (aka the movie where the Noble Gay dying nobly from AIDS is nice enough to teach A Straight to be a better person before he croaks). While their scenes were scrubbed of basically any intimacy, he was playing Tom Hanks’ lover, and apparently that was proximal enough to The Gay that he was an okay dude to ask. And then he fucking killed it with the material he was given it, in spite of the fact that the majority of his scenes were opposite the totally catatonic Pitt (who has made no bones about how much he haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaated being in this movie). He’s a champ, and a treasure, come at me.”

What do you think about AR saying she wants an older actor for Armand because she’s afraid he would age if he was a teenager? Personally I think they could manage, and all I want (although I did appreciate Banderas) is an accurate representation of Armand for once. And everyone has so many great suggestions for every single other character but no one really seems to know about Armand. With casting an older actor, it is highly unlikely they will get very close to the book version. Love your blog

Thanks for lovin’ mah blargh

u

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I understand, and I sympathize, we’d all love to have someone who’s closer to our headcanon for Armand *hugs* (I also appreciated Banderas’ Armand*, and @vraik had a post worth checking out re: the casting of Banderas instead of someone who fit the canon description better).

That said, an “accurate representation” is pretty tough to ask for bc actors are all human, and there will always be room for improvement. This is especially true re: a character like Armand who may be one of the furthest from being human than any of the other VC characters. Angel, demon, coven leader, youth, imp, etc… he is many things. And AR is not totally wrong, people do age, and it would be unfortunate to have to recast a character bc their actor “aged out” of the role, extra sad if they had built up good chemistry with the other actors!

What we need is someone who’s a little older than necessary who has that elusive *~forever-young gene~* (you know, like Keanu Reeves, someone who doesn’t age), and there are such ppl! I have it. I’m 33 and people still think I’m 17:

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^This was before I got my haircut, but it’s pretty recent, no airbrushing, the mirror’s a little dirty tho OH WELL. I’m also posting it w/ this response bc really, the only VC character I could cosplay would be Armand, it’s just the face shape I have, being half Russian and all.

You can dig around in my #VC Casting tag for more ideas but here’s a few, under the cut. 

Casting Armand is gonna be tough, bc not only does he need to look that young and stay that young, he also needs to look like a painted portrait, I mean who really looks like a Botticelli angel?! And even then, we don’t all agree 100% on what these characters look like, we’re all influenced by our own culture’s ideals of beauty, our own aesthetic tastes, etc. So my choice of Botticelli angel might not even be yours.

But let’s assume we all agree on THIS angel for the sake of argument, and we hand this over to a casting agent:

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[^Madonna of the Pomegranate by Sandro Botticelli, circa 1487, detail]

Fortunately, there are ppl out there who refuse to age, who look younger than they are already, and that’s the kind of actor I’d want ;3 so…

Hit the jump for some options, cut for length.

  • Levi Miller – AR’s choice at one point.
  • Jaco Van Den Hoven
  • Matthew Clavane
  • Thomas Brodie-Sangster
  • Kirill Nikolini
  • (leaving out the fan fave, Bjorn Andresen, bc he is not an option, too old now!)

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^Levi Miller, AR’s choice at one point, not sure if she still wants him. I think he’s 15 now, but that face, very childlike. Too childlike? idk.

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^X Jaco Van Den Hoven, model, is 26 now, but looks like he could pass for ten years younger.

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^X Armand by @teambratprince (hit the X for larger version!) which is really one of my fave fanarts of him ever, and it was based on Jaco Van Den Hoven.

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^X Matthew Clavane, a current fandom fave, idk how old he is. Could pass for 15 but he’s a working model so I assume he’s 21+? 

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^Thomas Brodie-Sangster is 26 and could pass for 15. Idk how old he is in this gif.

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^Kirill Nikolini, also a model. @faceofabotticelliangel‘s FC for Armand for awhile. Idk how old he is in the pic or now but… an option? Maybe.


*The book version of Armand, IIRC, was not really developed as much in IWTV, yet another reason they could cast Banderas (preeeetty sure you know by now that I have a place in my heart for his Armand, too <3). I’m pretty sure that his physical appearance is sketched out (auburn hair and brown eyes) in IWTV, the focus is more on his attitude and what he says. His description is clarified in TVL and the later books. 

monstersinthecosmos:

vraik:

HEY. HEY. YOU KNOW WHO I LOVE? 

Antonio Banderas Armand. 

I ranted about this at length once, and realized it might be worth excising that particular section from my recaps and letting it stand on its own. 

SO LET ME TELL YOU A THING.

“Not only does Banderas give one hell of a performance, clearly entranced by Louis and convinced his ruthlessness is an acceptable means to an end (and then Louis dumps him immediately and Banderas’ crushed look that WHOOPS OVERESTIMATED just destroyed me). It’s really genuine, maybe the movie’s best after Cruise and Dunst, and at least half his dialogue is lifted without change from the books. But all that gets overlooked, because he doesn’t look like a teenager. And there’s a certain fairness to that – Armand’s body adds a dimension to his interactions with others as much as Claudia’s does. But now let me give you a hot dose of context.

In 1994, it was still a pretty common argument to conflate homosexuality with pedophilia, particularly with gay men.  THINK OF THE CHILDREN, Y’ALL. The movie already had to deal with the Claudia/Louis relationship, which only tenuously steps the worst landmines of creepiness, as we discussed, by avoiding physicality and giving mentally grown Claudia all the power. So, the filmmakers maybe didn’t want to stack, on top of that stack of gunpowder, a relationship with yet another underage character, particularly one that so played into existing stereotypes.

Then there’s the fact that, by virtue of the script, Louis’ feelings for Armand are a lot more explicitly tender and obvious than his relationship with Lestat. Back then, it was a big deal if you asked an actor to, gasp, play gay. Heavens forfend. But Banderas, in addition to being a handsome fellow and a marketable star, had also appeared in Philadelphia in 1993 (aka the movie where the Noble Gay dying nobly from AIDS is nice enough to teach A Straight to be a better person before he croaks). While their scenes were scrubbed of basically any intimacy, he was playing Tom Hanks’ lover, and apparently that was proximal enough to The Gay that he was an okay dude to ask. And then he fucking killed it with the material he was given it, in spite of the fact that the majority of his scenes were opposite the totally catatonic Pitt (who has made no bones about how much he haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaated being in this movie). He’s a champ, and a treasure, come at me.

The part of me that loves this movie as its own movie is so into Antonio, too. The reasons you stated are part of it, but as an aesthetic decision as well I really love him as this like Dark Exotic European Vampire. It works as a jarring contrast to the world Louis had lived in with Lestat, and even as a movie ploy it’s such a dynamic visual. And goddamnit his gold eyes flashing in the firelight. He’s just a real VAMPIREY VAMPIRE. It’s obviously a departure from the novel but it works so well on its own. 

I also think it works because the movie was never a series. If we’d gotten into the other stories it would’ve started mangling Armand’s character too much, but we don’t get to know him very personally here so it’s fine. 

The scenes with Armand are my favorite in the whole movie. They feel so magnetic to me, and I appreciate more than I can ever explain that they gave that much screen time to these conversations. It nails the tone of the novels so well and is so so so important to keep. 

I’m gonna cry! Thank you @vraik​, for articulating this so thoroughly and adding so much more to my dusty old #Defending Antonio tag. It was most likely a deliberate choice to diverge from canon on Armand’s appearance, but much of the character is still preserved and shines through Antonio’s performance.

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And @monstersinthecosmos makes an excellent point about how great his scenes are and what Antonio does bring to the table physically. His Tall Dark Exotic European look is in direct contrast with Lestat, who looks like Blonde Ambition Barbie in comparison.

Can we all keep this in mind for the upcoming adaptations? Whoever is cast, please give them a chance to do their jobs, which is ACTING. Even if the character does not fit your headcanon remotely. Let’s be considerate and keep in mind that some things are possible to explore in fiction that cannot yet, if ever, be shown in film/TV.

I’m really not trying to call you out, or get angry, but you’re a really big voice in the fandom, and I think that you need to consider how you respond to people: you’re very harsh with some suggestions/opinions/head-cannons, (Lestat being bipolar or having ptsd, neither of which we’re certain of; the way that some people like to tease IWTV the movie; people who really enjoy or at think fans should give Rice’s new work a chance; people that really like TQOTD) [tbc]

[part 3] I really like this blog, and I really like you as a spokesperson of sorts for the Tumblr side of her fanbase, but it’d be great if you could take a step back and consider how much you criticize the opinions of others. You put a lot of stuff below the cut, and maybe your’e just stressing a lot as of late because I’ve noticed it more now than before, but you often shut down people very quickly who have different ideas or thoughts on the series than you do. 


(Was there a part 2? If there was, then Tumblr ate it.)

I deeply considered this message, it’s been over one whole day, so I’m not replying too quickly. 

“…maybe your’e just stressing a lot as of late…”? Thank you for the concern, but no… in the past 2 weeks, we have a new VC book to read and there is turbulence in the fandom about the VC rights reverting back to Anne Rice… my reactions have been the normal amount of mixed emotions for this kind of information. Sometimes there’s exaggeration, which is normal for social media; to replace the emotions we don’t express vocally, w/ gestures, or w/ facial expressions. 

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I’m going to reply to this as thoughtfully as I can, without a cut, but basically: make Tumblr a good place for you, and unfollow me if you need to do so.

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[^X by @purplekecleon, now known as @glitchedpuppet]

1. As stated before, I do not hold myself out as “a really big voice,” any kind of official authority of, or spokesperson for, this fandom. I have accepted titles in a humorous way only, I do not consider my headcanons/opinions above anyone else’s.

In As stated before,” linking to a post from 1 week ago, someone else told me that “as a monolith of the fandom,” I have an obligation to be MORE critical, share more critical opinions of VC than I do already, so you can see that I can’t please that person AND you at the same time. Since I consider meta-analysis and reviews to be a form of fanwork, and I encourage fanworks, I am going to continue to share them.

I never told anyone NOT to read the new Anne Rice books PL and PLROA. I have respectfully shared some concerned and negative reviews. Rice is a professional writer and knows that part of putting her work out there means that it is vulnerable to readers’ review. If one bad review stops a long-time lover of a book series from reading the latest book, that’s sad, but I would not censor negative reviews. Rice used to respond to negative reviews, but currently, I believe that her stance is to ignore them. 

2. #Your Headcanon May Vary – I don’t always include this fandom law, as this is a fandom blog so it applies by default, but I’ve included it anyway, enough times that I thought it was understood implicitly by now. I am not going to add it as a disclaimer to every response, because I feel like it does not need to be stated. I don’t know if you are new to fandom, but here are a few more Fandom Laws, following them is about “being courteous in fandom. It makes the whole experience better for all of us.”

This is a social platform, and we all have our own opinions about these fictional characters, film/TV adaptations of canon, and the canon in general. We do not need to agree. We do not need to soften our opinions for anyone. Part of what is so great about a social platform like this is the exchange of ideas, it’s intellectually stimulating to consider other people’s interpretations and headcanons, even if they are stated in a harsh and/or strong manner. I consider every single one that is suggested to me, and I can decide if I want to accept it or not. It doesn’t matter where the ideas come from, even someone suggesting something who has only seen movie!QOTD might have a great idea I might accept!

My headcanon is a collection of my own and other people’s ideas from discussions, fanfics, fanart, meta-analysis posts, etc. which I have absorbed over the last 20+ years I’ve been in fandom. Most of my headcanon would not exist if I did not discuss ideas with other people, or engage in fandom through fanworks. I am grateful for all of the rich discussions and even heated arguments I’ve had about VC over the years!

There are many opinions out there that I disagree with, but I go by the Real Life rule of “Live and Let Live.” Here’s two examples:

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[^X by @vampchronfic]

  • A) People bash Antonio Banderas as Armand in IWTV, he is one of the fandom’s punching bags. I have stated my opinions about him in my #Defending Antonio tag, but I don’t mind that other people still don’t like him. If I am the only one who liked him as Armand in that movie, that’s totally fine by me! 
  • B) Just as I do poke fun at movie!QOTD, I don’t mind if other people adore it. I know that some people find it nostalgic. Some people love the soundtrack. Some people love Aaliyah or Stuart Townsend, any number of reasons, or just, “I don’t know why, I just like it” are all fine!

^I am actually friendly with both (A) the people who despise Antonio!Armand, and (B) the people who love movie!QOTD, because we can Live and Let Live. Friendship is not dependent on agreement.

Being in the same fandom with people does not mean that they have to agree with you. I used to think that it did, and that it guaranteed friendship. It does neither of those things. If we all agreed on everything, would there even be anything left to discuss? 

#IWANTMYIWTV RP

One of the examples you mentioned of my being harsh re: my headcanons was an Ask directed to Lestat, and I answered as Lestat, in character. Yes, he often responds harshly. I headcanon him as a friendly character but guarded, especially against anonymous strangers, even those that very respectfully suggest that he has a mental illness. Anyone can ask other Lestat RPers the same thing and see what they might say.

In that response, he begins with taking offense, but then winds down to pointing out that it’s unfortunate that medication/therapy carries an unfair stigma, that he does go to therapy, and considers that medical intervention may have helped Nicolas. So to write all that off as being harsh makes me feel like you didn’t read the answer fully. I put some of the response under the cut because cutting long posts is part of Tumblr etiquette.

I do not headcanon him as bipolar. Whether or not he is bipolar is up to every reader’s interpretation. Which brings me to my next point:

The real VC authority

It’s worth mentioning that on FB in another thread, in another topic, Anne Rice herself was asked about “But as a long time fan, I’ve ( and many other fans, I´m sure..) never understood the whole “Lestat and Louis- thing” and I think in a psychologically way it is also very interesting. Please, can you POFOUNDLY explain this whole relationship?” 

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^Is Anne Rice abdicating authority here? I’m not sure. It looks like she wants the asker to draw their own conclusions. But I have seen her questioned on FB, at booksignings, and spoken of on tumblr and elsewhere, in ways that lead me to believe that she is not considered the authority on VC to 100% of the fandom, and that she doesn’t mind that.

I love what she has given us, but she isn’t my authority. I don’t need her validation on my headcanons. If the creator of the series is not the authority, who is? Not me, I’m just one person. 

You don’t need my validation. You don’t need anyone’s validation. You are your own VC authority, anon.

You can form your own headcanons and share them, convince people of them, or not. Make your fandom experience good for you, Live and Let Live, and unfollow me if you need to. I totally understand and wish you well.