Here’s the thing that bugs me about Tumblr fandoms.
People latch onto certain headcanons. These headcanons become popular. Suddenly the fandom starts insisting that said headcanon is actual canom. They become so militant about it that they punish anyone who disagrees with them.
Now, I absolutely love headcanons. By all means, you should rewrite canon. Reinterpret canon. Make the canon more inclusive and more diverse. Question the messages put forth by the canon. You have the freedom to change and critique the canon as you see fit.
But please remember that other people are allowed to have their own interpretations as well. Give everyone the liberty to develop headcanons that appeal to them. And for the love of God, don’t attack people that see things differently than you.
Re: @firelight-fading‘s post: “How many of you actually feel that Louis’ visiting Lestat at the end of IWTV and the conversation that followed actually happened? Lestat insists that it didn’t, but both him and Louis are unreliable narrators…”
Hey, look, you are free to believe in whichever unreliable narrator you want! Clearly we don’t all agree on this. I still don’t know what I believe, but I lean towards it happening, that they met, just maybe not as Louis described it.
Anon says: If the scene didn’t take place at all how did Louis get such an accurate description of Lestat’s condition?…
It’s not like Louis can take images from Armand’s mind either.
^Louis had seen a pretty battered Lestat around 1865, and then he thought Lestat was destroyed in the TdV fire, so he’s probably guessing that his maker looks like toast now, if he’s in fact still alive.
Lestat acknowledges in TVL that Armand came around to pester him in NOLA, which, yes, is presumably after Armand and Louis went their separate ways. But Armand could have visited Lestat before that separation, or gotten the information from another vampire who had seen Lestat in NOLA. They’re probably not the only vampires in New York during the time that they’re there.
Anon says: even if he had visited once before why would he give Louis the full disclosure? In IWTV, Armand tells Louis that Lestat is in NOLA:
“Then, finally, Armand urged me in another way. He told me something he’d concealed from me since the time we were in Paris.
“Lestat had not died in the Theatre des Vampires. I had believed him to be dead, and when I asked Armand about those vampires, he told me they all had perished. But he told me now that this wasn’t so. Lestat had left the theater the night I had run away from Armand and sought out the cemetery in Montmartre. Two vampires who had been made with Lestat by the same master had assisted him in booking passage to New Orleans.
^So how Armand knew this, we don’t know, but I assume he read it from Lestat’s thoughts when he visited Lestat in NOLA prior to Armand’s separation with Louis, or from another vampire who had seen Lestat passing through NY.
Armand wants Louis to see Lestat for himself bc he wants Louis to “come back to life.”
” `You care about nothing …’ [Armand] was saying. And then he sat up slowly and turned to me so again I could see that dark fire in his eyes. `I thought you would at least care about that. I thought you would feel the old passion, the old anger if you were to see him again. I thought something would quicken and come alive in you if you saw him . . . if you returned to this place.’
^Sorry Armand, fail on that 😛
Whether Louis actually met with Lestat the way he described it in IWTV is up for debate, but Louis might have gotten such an accurate description of Lestat’s condition verbally from Armand. Perhaps, as you say, Louis might have exaggerated the patheticness of the conversation to get a reaction from Lestat, as he was trying to provoke Lestat into coming out of wherever he was hiding.
Or maybe Louis just wanted to tell his story to another soul, like confession, and get some feeling of absolution from the act of telling, maybe it felt good to invent this portion for no good reason. I don’t personally think that’s very IC for Louis but… who knows?
Can we just look at this for a minute….
Two vampires who had been made with Lestat by the same master had assisted him in booking passage to New Orleans.
^This used to really irritate me, these two vampire siblings of Lestat who never appeared again in canon, I have to assume Armand invented them for whatever reason (make Louis jealous that he didn’t help Lestat himself?) or that Daniel’s publisher added them in for whatever reason *shrugs*
Ooooh good question! In IWTV, Louis says that he did visit Lestat (and it was in the movie).
We have #unreliable narrators and it’s hard to say whether it happened, or happened in a different way than described…
They do agree that Lestat was in hiding and pretty decrepit. Louis describes Lestat as being holed up in some crumbling old house some short distance away from their old Rue Royale flat, which Lestat does confirm in TVL:
“And I spent the last years of the 1800s in complete seclusion in the old Garden District a block from the Lafayette Cemetery, in the finest of my houses, slumbering beneath towering oaks.”
I answered it more in depth on this post, in which I said that I trusted Louis’ account. Lestat refusing to kill a baby would be in character for him. That Louis would invent this just whole scene to provoke Lestat out of hiding is less in character for him, but possible. He did leave a lot out, and leaving out information is lying by omission.
Your headcanon may be that it happened, and someone else’s may be that it didn’t. Even if AR says one way or the other, there are readers who will still hold onto their own headcanon. #Your headcanon may vary on this one.
[part 3] I really like this blog, and I really like you as a spokesperson of sorts for the Tumblr side of her fanbase, but it’d be great if you could take a step back and consider how much you criticize the opinions of others. You put a lot of stuff below the cut, and maybe your’e just stressing a lot as of late because I’ve noticed it more now than before, but you often shut down people very quickly who have different ideas or thoughts on the series than you do.
(Was there a part 2? If there was, then Tumblr ate it.)
I deeply considered this message, it’s been over one whole day, so I’m not replying too quickly.
“…maybe your’e just stressing a lot as of late…”? Thank you for the concern, but no… in the past 2 weeks, we have a new VC book to read and there is turbulence in the fandom about the VC rights reverting back to Anne Rice… my reactions have been the normal amount of mixed emotions for this kind of information. Sometimes there’s exaggeration, which is normal for social media; to replace the emotions we don’t express vocally, w/ gestures, or w/ facial expressions.
I have to respectfully disagree with you. I’m going to reply to this as thoughtfully as I can, without a cut, but basically: make Tumblr a good place for you, and unfollow me if you need to do so.
1. As stated before, I do not hold myself out as “a really big voice,” any kind of official authority of, or spokesperson for, this fandom. I have accepted titles in a humorous way only, I do not consider my headcanons/opinions above anyone else’s.
In “As stated before,” linking to a post from 1 week ago, someone else told me that “as a monolith of the fandom,” I have an obligation to be MORE critical, share more critical opinions of VC than I do already, so you can see that I can’t please that person AND you at the same time. Since I consider meta-analysis and reviews to be a form of fanwork, and I encourage fanworks, I am going to continue to share them.
2. #Your Headcanon May Vary – I don’t always include this fandom law, as this is a fandom blog so it applies by default, but I’ve included it anyway, enough times that I thought it was understood implicitly by now. I am not going to add it as a disclaimer to every response, because I feel like it does not need to be stated. I don’t know if you are new to fandom, but here are a few more Fandom Laws, following them is about “beingcourteous in fandom. It makes the whole experience better for all of us.”
This is a social platform, and we all have our own opinions about these fictional characters, film/TV adaptations of canon, and the canon in general. We do not need to agree. We do not need to soften our opinions for anyone. Part of what is so great about a social platform like this is the exchange of ideas, it’s intellectually stimulating to consider other people’s interpretations and headcanons, even if they are stated in a harsh and/or strong manner. I consider every single one that is suggested to me, and I can decide if I want to accept it or not. It doesn’t matter where the ideas come from, even someone suggesting something who has only seen movie!QOTD might have a great idea I might accept!
My headcanon is a collection of my own and other people’s ideas from discussions, fanfics, fanart, meta-analysis posts, etc. which I have absorbed over the last 20+ years I’ve been in fandom. Most of my headcanon would not exist if I did not discuss ideas with other people, or engage in fandom through fanworks. I am grateful for all of the rich discussions and even heated arguments I’ve had about VC over the years!
There are many opinions out there that I disagree with, but I go by the Real Life rule of “Live and Let Live.” Here’s two examples:
A) People bash Antonio Banderas as Armand in IWTV, he is one of the fandom’s punching bags. I have stated my opinions about him in my #Defending Antonio tag, but I don’t mind that other people still don’t like him. If I am the only one who liked him as Armand in that movie, that’s totally fine by me!
B) Just as I do poke fun at movie!QOTD, I don’t mind if other people adore it. I know that some people find it nostalgic. Some people love the soundtrack. Some people love Aaliyah or Stuart Townsend, any number of reasons, or just, “I don’t know why, I just like it” are all fine!
^I am actually friendly with both (A) the people who despise Antonio!Armand, and (B) the people who love movie!QOTD, because we can Live and Let Live. Friendship is not dependent on agreement.
Being in the same fandom with people does not mean that they have to agree with you. I used to think that it did, and that it guaranteed friendship. It does neither of those things. If we all agreed on everything, would there even be anything left to discuss?
#IWANTMYIWTV RP
One of the examples you mentioned of my being harsh re: my headcanons was an Ask directed to Lestat, and I answered as Lestat, in character. Yes, he often responds harshly. I headcanon him as a friendly character but guarded, especially against anonymous strangers, even those that very respectfully suggest that he has a mental illness. Anyone can ask other Lestat RPers the same thing and see what they might say.
In that response, he begins with taking offense, but then winds down to pointing out that it’s unfortunate that medication/therapy carries an unfair stigma, that he does go to therapy, and considers that medical intervention may have helped Nicolas. So to write all that off as being harsh makes me feel like you didn’t read the answer fully. I put some of the response under the cut because cutting long posts is part of Tumblr etiquette.
I do not headcanon him as bipolar. Whether or not he is bipolar is up to every reader’s interpretation. Which brings me to my next point:
The real VC authority
It’s worth mentioning that on FB in another thread, in another topic, Anne Rice herself was asked about “But as a long time fan, I’ve ( and many other fans, I´m sure..) never understood the whole“Lestat and Louis- thing” and I think in a psychologically way it is also very interesting. Please, can you POFOUNDLY explain this whole relationship?”
^Is Anne Rice abdicating authority here? I’m not sure. It looks like she wants the asker to draw their own conclusions. But I have seen her questioned on FB, at booksignings, and spoken of on tumblr and elsewhere, in ways that lead me to believe that she is not considered the authority on VC to 100% of the fandom, and that she doesn’t mind that.
I love what she has given us, but she isn’t my authority. I don’t need her validation on my headcanons. If the creator of the series is not the authority, who is? Not me, I’m just one person.
You don’t need my validation. You don’t need anyone’s validation. You are your own VC authority, anon.
You can form your own headcanons and share them, convince people of them, or not. Make your fandom experience good for you, Live and Let Live, and unfollow me if you need to. I totally understand and wish you well.
♛I bare my soul to you so thoroughly and so often for so very long and you want to put me on medication *sigh*
[X] My initial reaction is offense, you’re right about that, but I know you meant it in good faith. Perhaps it’s because Armand has suggested it so many times as an insult, and I detest that there’s a connotation that anyone “on pills” or “seeing a shrink” is somehow lesser for doing these things. Who the f&ck decided that wearing glasses to improve one’s vision was acceptable but needing extra chemicals to improve one’s brain functions was somehow an indication of being some kind of, I don’t know, freak of nature?! Oh right, wearing glasses will get you bullied, too *tosses up hands*
Here’s the thing that I maybe failed to convey to you or that some of you chose to misread.
I grew up with neglect and physical abuse on a regular basis. Directly proportional to any time I wanted to strike out and try to find what any child craves – affection, love, support. I had so little of those things. I starved for them. Do you know what it’s like to have to sit at the dinner table and be polite to someone sitting at the head of the table who less than an hour ago beat you to the ground, your face on the cold stone floor, and ridiculed you for crying about it? You’re wearing bruises from it, you have some bandages, you taste your own blood in your mouth from your split lip with each bite of the food that YOU brought home to this person? Trying not to shake or cry. This person who asks you to play chess with him after dinner as if nothing happened?
this is one perfect, powerful, gut wrenching introspection on the character and thank the Gods for Coven Leaders like @i-want-my-iwtv for being here and giving us posts like this one.
Well… your message sat in my inbox for 5 days bc this is a question every reader has to answer for themselves. It partly depends on how much canon you’ve read.
[^X“I love him in ways that I can’t explain to other people. They don’t understand… it’s not their fault.” is that not canon?!]
IWTV is Louis’ account of their time in that era, and as @vraik astutely pointed out, Louis admits that he’s holding back information when he says “If I held something too close for you to ask about it, I would not bring it up in the first place.” Lestat says as much near the end of TVL, that Louis left many things out. *~Unreliable narrators!~*
And movie!IWTV had even less of what Louis says in the book, because it had to be edited for the sake of time… many scenes in the book were not in the movie. Also, it was made in the early 90′s, keep in mind that it pushed the envelope for its time re: showing any homosexuality.
tl;dr: I ship Louis/Lestat, I don’t need to define my ship as romantic, sexual, or platonic, etc. I just hardcore ship them TOGETHER.
Hit the jump for more, cut for length.
While they don’t “date” in canon, Louis talks about Lestat in IWTV with a lot of fascination, and later, Lestat writes about Louis with a lot of fascination, too (more, really!)… and they don’t actually kiss in canon until the 3rd book, right before Lestat’s big concert, and then they’re separated again soon after. It’s a ship that takes alot of Read Between the Lines.
Most of the vampires who are turned in canon are turned bc their makers love them so much that they can’t let their loved one be perishable any longer. Whatever Louis’ perception was of IWTV!Lestat, it seems clear to many of the fandom that Lestat chose Louis for more than his wealth and/or friendship, and that now, in later canon, the feelings between them are mutual.
io9: There’s the concept of Louis and Lestat as Claudia’s “parents,” which we see in the novel, movie and now in the graphic novel. When you know the narrative, it’s not quite the modern statement it could appear to be visually, in the adaptation. Are you okay with that as an idea for the new century?
AR: Sure! [Laughs] Sure! I never thought of it, they were the first vampire same-sex parents.
io9: I had wondered if that had been a thought on your mind before.
AR: No.
io9: That’s the way that it seems to be shown, it’s very much “she’s our daughter now.” So I can say, they’re a same-sex couple with children?
We as a fandom are often asked which books are the most important in VC, which ones need to be read before the new one comes out, which books we consider to be canon…
Every reader has to decide that for themselves. It’s great when we can agree on things, but some things are left ambiguous, either by unreliable narrators, discrepancies in the information we’re given, or simply some variation of “these characters are #ooc to me and I REFUSE ALL OF IT >:[ ”
“Reflecting on the total lack of consensus amongst my readers on which is my best book, or which is my worst, really, readers write fascinating and substantive responses to "Memnoch the Devil.” Others dismiss it as a total failure or where the whole series went wrong. Some claim the earlier Chronicles are the best; others praise the later books. A few claim my husband, Stan, was the real author. A great many readers embrace the entire series, with all its twists and turns.” Anne Rice, 11/01/2016 [X]
(I didn’t know ppl claimed Stan had written the earlier books! He certainly might have had a big influence on them, at any rate) ^@claudias-ashes pointed this out to me, and I skimmed the responses, lots of praise in there for AR. It’s good to see her acknowledging that we do not all recognize all of the books as canon, and she seems fine with that, even offering advice to writers who may find themselves in a similar situation. It’s a good stance to have, she’s not forcing anyone to accept any or all of it, so when we have our fandom debates about things, keep in mind that AR’s opinion is probably, like mine, #your headcanon may vary.
The rest of her quote is under the cut (cut for length not spoilers), along with the info that:
Lestat is never gonna die! well good bc he is the gotdamn Sacred Core now
She’s already all revved up to get started on the next VC! for better or worse
Hit the jump…
“…When I ask, “Which is your favorite book?” The responses are all over. Is this good or bad? Frankly, every author wants to be read, and for the readers to care. But why do I spark so much controversy? I’ve never fully understood. I’m passionate, the books are passionate, and I’m profoundly thankful to say the readers are passionate. But have writers ever had so much fresh and authentic feedback before? I don’t think so. You’ve got to keep your head, keep steering the boat, keep re-entering your world and finding your place there as you continue. I don’t want Lestat ever to die, not even when I die. Perish the thought. For me, he can’t die. He’s too irrepressibly alive, and I am too connected to him. I’ve tried to run away from him, but it has never really worked. Now, I don’t want to run away at all. I want to sail right into a third “Prince Lestat” book— right from “Prince Lestat and the Realms of Atlantis,” and continue writing about Lestat as the monarch of a remarkable tribe. Vampire radio star, Benji Mahmoud with his broadcasts of news from the Vampire Court must be a metaphor for the author. What would it be like to slip into psychosis and wake up body and soul in Chateau de Lioncourt? Lovely. But the view from here is just fine.“
Well, it depends what part of canon you’re at, and what amount of canon you accept.* I’m still not entirely sure what my headcanon is w/ his current abilities, but even if you ignore all of canon after IWTV, he’s been a vampire 225 years so he’s stronger just through age if nothing else.
He’s also one of the only vampires in canon who has never “gone to ground” (hiding/burying oneself in the ground for an extended period of time in a state of complete or semi-unconsciousness), even though he’s had very good reasons to ;A;
Armand describes Louis’ lack of powers here in TVA:“…unable to read minds, or to levitate, or to spellbind others except inadvertently, which can be hilarious, an immortal with whom mortals fall in love.”
Just from IWTV and into the later books, yes, Louis is referred to as physically weaker than the other vampires, and he doesn’t exhibit any of the gifts that some other fledglings have in canon (like telepathy, telekinesis). This doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any of these now, but that he hasn’t really exercised them in canon.
Lestat tells us in TVL: “I never revealed to him half my powers, and with reason, because he shrank in guilt and self-loathing from using even half of his own.”
But he’s still stronger and faster than a mortal. He’s also able to defend himself and kick a lot of ass, so to call him “really weak” is probably an overstatement. What he lacks physically he makes up for mentally, he’s strategic in the way he attacks when he does attack, and he can hold his own against much stronger and older vampires (he took out most of the Theatre des Vampires on his own in IWTV!)
Part of his weakness in comparison to the rest of the coven is the fact that he was Lestat’s 3rd fledgling in such a short period of time after Lestat’s 2nd fledgling (Nicolas). In Ricean vampire physiology, a maker needs to wait a good long while between making fledglings; too much frequency will make subsequent fledglings weaker than they could have been. Plus, even though Lestat had the blood of a much older and stronger vampire when he was turned, Lestat himself was only a decade into vampiring himself. It seems the vampiric spirit discourages the transfer of powers from young vampires to their fledglings. If anyone got the bulk of that power, it was Gabrielle, Lestat’s first.
There is also some speculation that the blood transfer needs to be exchanged more than once (how it was done w/ Louis) to ensure a stronger fledgling. Marius, for example, exchanged blood with his maker multiple times when he was turned.
*Spoilers under the cut.
Louis was upgraded in Merrick, and in PL, he can fly (the Cloud Gift). We don’t know if he has any others now. Maybe we’ll find out in PLROA! He has a significant role in it, according to AR.
Thanks for the compliments on my blargh! *u* I try to answer asks thoughtfully and respectfully and expect the same consideration back from whoever reads my answers ^_____^
As always, #your headcanon may vary, bc we’re talking about fictional vampires, they are not people. Whether you consider them to be people in their own world is up to you. For me, I see them as ex-people. They share a supernatural parasite that gradually eats away at their mortal parts, replacing it with its own immortal substance, perfecting their host bodies to its own design. So they exist beyond the definitions of sex and gender for me.
I do not believe the vampires are canonically capable of penetrative sex but do I love fanart/fanfic/RP where they have penetrative sex? YES, YES I DO, MORE PLZ. Have I commissioned such fanart of it for myself? Y E S. Will I commission more of it or write my own in the future? YOU’RE GOTDAMN RIGHT I WILL. I love the creativity of the fanon interpretations and I will support these ideas forever.
According to Lestat vampires don’t feel sex drive,
I don’t recall anywhere in canon where Lestat says that vampires do not feel a sex drive. He has described himself as a sensualist, and we know he falls in love easily. I think that they do feel a sex drive, just not in the genitally-penetrative sex way (not the most eloquent phrasing there but I can’t think of another way to put it; “PIV/penis-in-vagina” just doesn’t apply to most of our gay ships).
Turning vampires seems to be their ultimate “sexual” act that they can perform, bc it is equivalent to pregnancy (a fledgling is being “born to darkness”), and it is always described primarily as the sharing of the Blood between maker and fledgling. I headcanon that Lestat loves the act of performing this, and that’s partly why he has had SO MANY FLEDGLINGS. So I believe that they still do feel sexual lust, it’s channeled through the experience of taking/sharing blood, and other sensually physical things.
In fanon there is a wide spectrum of whether they can have genitally-penetrative sex, some even speculate that their um… output… would be very bloody. There is fanart/fanfics/RP/etc. in which they can have that kind of sex, and ones in which they cannot.
in The Tale of the Body Thief one of the things he wants to expierence when he has a human body is sex because he says this is something he can’t do with his vampire body.
^This is up to every reader’s interpretation, and yes, in my opinion, Ricean vampires in canon cannot have penetrative sex. My main evidence for them as being unable to have genitally-penetrative sex comes from [hit the jump for spoilers].
AR has written alot of other novels with genitally-penetrative sex being an important factor, so I doubt it was an oversight in denying it to her vampires. If you want to go by her as the authority on her novels, and many ppl do, she posted definitively about it when asked about Daniel and Marius in PL:
AR does not go into much further detail than that, even in canon, other than the fact that the sharing of blood is more intimate for them than than simple mortal penetrative sex. Part of why she chose this may be to avoid the issue of pregnancy the way mortals do it; a baby cannot grow in undead flesh, y’know?
TL;DR: Personally, I headcanon them as unable to have genitally-penetrative sex. There are human couples who are unable (or do not want) to experience genitally-penetrative sex, and they can still be sexually intimate with each other in other ways. So it’s partly in how you define sex and intimacy.
But in his book Armand mentions that he had sex with Marius several times.
Armand was mortal for some of that book, and Marius did sexual things with him, but not genitally-penetrative sex. After Armand is turned, Marius and Armand have an intimate moment with a mortal woman together, but again, it is not genitally-penetrative sex for them.
My main evidence for them as being unable to have genitally-penetrative sex comes from:
Louis’s description of sex in IWTV:
Claudia asks Louis about sex in IWTV, and he replies that it “‘…was something hurried…And… it was seldom savored… something acute that was quickly lost. I think that it was the pale shadow of killing.’”
^He’s talking about it as occurring in the past, I think he means when he was mortal. Here he says it’s not equivalent to the act of taking blood from a victim, sex is a lesser experience for him.
Lestat’s description of his non-functioning Priapus in QOTD:
“I studied my reflection … and the organ, the organ we don’t need, poised as if ready for what it would never again know how to do or want to do, marble, a Priapus at a gate” – Lestat, Queen of the Damned
^This quote has been interpreted over and over again as meaning many things, one of which being that the vampires have a permanent boner, which I disagree with. I highly doubt Louis, someone with a lot of dignity, would be fine with walking around for eternity with a permanent boner. I blame this misunderstanding on the translators who translated “poised” to “erect” in various other languages.
I interpret that quote as meaning that his Priapus is just “waiting.”
and Pandora’s description of Marius’ non-functioning (but very hard) dick in her book. Pandora wants Marius to sex her up on their ‘wedding night’ and he can’t do it, but they try, awkwardly:
He covered me and kissed my cheek. “Drink from me,” he said, “drink until the pain goes away. It’s only the body dying, drink Pandora, you are immortal.“ “Fill me, take me,” I said. I reached down between his legs. “It doesn’t matter now.” But it was hard, this organ I sought, the organ forever lost to the god Osiris. I guided it, hard and cold as it was, into my body. Then I drank and drank, and when I felt his teeth again on my neck, when he began to draw from me the new mixture that filled my veins, it was sweet suckling, and I knew him and loved him and knew all his secrets in one flash which meant nothing. He was right. The lower organs meant nothing. He fed on me. I fed on him. This was our marriage. –Pandora
I think AR is telling us that in order to be immortal, a great sacrifice must be made. Not just outliving your loved ones, food and drink, sunlight, and your appearance being altered. For many people, sex is as necessary to life as eating and breathing. To give that up for eternity is a huge sacrifice, but, you do get super powers an immortality. Fair trade?
I-want-my-IWTV 