How do you DEAL with Prince Lestat spoilers?? The fact that you’ve been spoiled? Or want to be spoiled? UM??
“There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand the world. There is no such thing as a dumb question.” ― Carl Sagan,
Maybe we should set up a support group for ppl dealing with this and other atrocities happenings in PL+
…BTW ”PL+” is Prince Lestat PLUS any book that follows it bc collectively, I JUST DO NOT KNOW ok? I cherry-pick what I want from them currently but accepting them in their entirety is a HARD PILL(S) TO SWALLOW. And I think it’s all just gonna get harder to swallow, not easier *shakes fist at AR* WHY U DO DIS??
C) Someone who is related to Lestat – He has A LOT of relatives? Which do you mean? But I can make a guess, under the cut.
I HOPE YOU FEEL HELPED?? *hugs*
*~HERE BE SPOILERS~*
A) A lot of exceedingly wackadoodle shit happens and we get some new characters, some which are, to me, canon fodder, so AR has someone to murdalize later.
B) Maharet gets murdalized. Sorry ;A;
C) Lestat gets cloned. Technically. He gets a son, Viktor. Who LOOKS JUST LIKE HIM so like, Lestat 2.0? Diet Lestat? Basically? Maybe AR intends him to become the frontrunner at some point? But he’s basically there for the YA audience, IMO. He’s our Edward Cullen, light on the angst tho *ragged sigh*
TL:DR; Anon says don’t skip it, you should read it.
I’m of the mindset that there’s something good in all the VC books even if you don’t accept them all as canon, there’s always something worth dragging out into the light and enjoying for what it is as a standalone piece, be it a quote, or good dialogue banter, or whatever floats your boat, and you may miss it if you skip over a whole section… Even if the characters aren’t our faves, there may be something in there that’s worth salvaging. @sanguinivora gave me a new diving suit for this purpose, lol.
ANYWAY so Anon wrote in 4 messages:
1) To your PLROA question: It’s true, in a way 95% of KT could be skipped. Anne Rice told it so boringly, mentioning every detail (every time they ate and what they ate) it did not even have a chance to be interesting as a story (for me it was though also too absurd).
Good to know. I mean, the vampires can’t eat food, maybe this was an attempt to make the replimoids more likeable? That they’re all impressed with the earhtly food and stuff? So her tale was interesting and absurd tho, that’s the impression I’m getting.
2) But still I don’t think that the end of the book will make actually sense if one knows not the facts one hears in KT. You know the outcome, yes, but probably not really why or how it came to be. So my advice is to read that part simply incredible fast, not trying to imagine every single detail.
Sounds like good advice. I’ll be interested to see what info does apply.
3) Otherwise I find it in a way sad that AR steals every secret. In IWTV we know NOTHING of vampires – which makes that book so strong. Then in TVL we hear the tale of the parents, which gave me chills still. But this book goes for me too far.
If I understand you right, you liked that we didn’t know the vampire origins in IWTV, and then in TVL those origins are discussed and you did enjoy that. I agree, it seems like most VC fandom ppl I’ve talked with love VC partly for its take on the vampire origin myth. I BOUGHT IT THEN AND I BUY IT NOW. And AR even leaves the possibility that there are other vampire-like beings that have a different origin story, like the mindless Eurovamps Louis and Claudia find. They doubt that those vampires were created the way they were, but it’s left unexplained.
But this book goes for me too far.
That seems to be shared by other fans, too, that she undermines the facts set up in earlier books, rather than adding to them in a richer way :-
4th message from anon has kind of a big spoiler, so it is under the cut.
4) That all the vampires are separated in the end, takes a LOT of the vampire “magic” and makes so much of the old novels in a way undone. I would never read it a second time and I will also not regard it actually as VC truth.
Yeah I agree with you, one of the things I really loved about the vampire physiology of Ricean vampires was the fact that they were all connected, and to have that severed, it just felt like a huge loss of the vampire “magic” as you put it. Amel could travel around on it and visit other vampires! It was like they really were all one creature in a way.
I would reread PLROA more for those domestic and angsty moments we get of the vampire court, Lestat squabbling with Amel in his head, the L/L fluff, of course. But for the ALIEMS? No thank you, I really hope she moves on to literally anything else… I would even accept a wurwulf/VC crossover at this point, as it would be more grounded in the universe she had previously built.
It’s not my fave VC, but not my least fave VC, either. It’s growing on me.
As I answered in a recent Ask re: Merrick, idk, I would always advocate reading the books, as cracky as some of them can be, bc there are always moments that are really great! Single lines worth digging up, some phrasing that hits you #Right in the Feels. Don’t you want to know what happens? You don’t have to agree with it but the ride is always at the very least stimulating… you can always just skim it for plot points if reading it is too much of an investment.
As to whether it’s “just plain awful”? I wouldn’t agree w/ that, bc there are some gems in it that you can’t get anywhere else. At the risk of being redundant, my short answer: I think AR can still capture that old quality we all fell in love with, albeit in slivers. Which is why I can’t disregard any of the books entirely. It’s still hard for me to accept Prince Lestat as canon, I might never, but there are moments and lines of dialogue in it that are SO VERY GOOD. Moments where I’ve had to pause and smile, because it was as if the old Lestat, from IWTV or TVL, actually graced us with his presence, if only for a moment.
who uses Jordan Sörbom as a FC), @antoineandthepiano, and @roselioncourt, all of whom RP new characters from PL (technically Antoine was in IWTV but he has a larger presence in PL so I count him as new) and care way more about them than I am capable of currently.
I didn’t find many of the new characters very engaging, I would bet we’ll get more depth on them in later books, and/or they were created for what I like to call “canon-fodder” so that AR has a bunch of chars to kill in the next book(s), since she can’t kill the core group we all love so much! She tried to kill a few of them and had to bring them back ;]
Spoilers and probably unpopular opinions re: Viktor under the cut. And really I prefer not to make unpopular opinions but sometimes I gotta.
I find Viktor to be a kind of watered-down Twilight knockoff. He seemed to be an answer for all the POTP who had pestered AR for years to give Lestat a biological son… and the romance between him and Rose came off as pretty forced to me, again, a YA couple like in Twilight for fanservice. Not that YA can’t be well done, just that I didn’t really buy AR’s stab at it. Other ppl may have and they are welcome to ship their hearts out!
Because this is needed
tw: gore; horrifying imagery.
**SOME SPOILERS AHEAD**
aries: Lestat eating Dora out on her period
taurus: Lestat getting mesmerized and lost in Walmarts
gemini: Tarquin Blackwood’s turning from drinking genital blood
cancer: Lestat describing urination for two pages
leo: LIKE 14 PAGES OF CAMEO BUTTONS
virgo: Marius ripping off Mael’s head to fix it
libra: Lestat eating Mekare’s brain through her eye socket
scorpio: LESTAT’S CLONE SON
sagittarius: Armand cutting Nicolas’ hands off
capricorn: Lestat losing an eye
aquarius: The whipping scene in The Vampire Armand
pisces: Lestat’s attempt to have sex as a human
They don’t have all the books??! How rude. You might be able to find the others online for free very cheaply, or at second-hand stores like the Salvation Army.
There ARE different main characters in some of the books, and in some, Lestat is almost entirely left out. He is mentioned only once just to point out that he WILL be completely left out in Vittorio, but that book was not really intended as a Vampire Chronicle.
But the order of the VC still tracks along Lestat’s journey, even if it veers off for a book or two (as with the Vampire Armand or Blood and Gold) and then picks back up with him.
Short answer is: without access to the full canon, you can’t just breeze through it like I did, and I don’t know which ones you are missing, but…. I recommend you read them in order as best you can. In later canon, other characters will refer to scenes already played out in earlier canon, contributing their own perspective, which may be confusing and will spoil those scenes for you. It will be up to you to decide which character’s account of things to believe. They’re all wildly unreliable narrators with their own selfish reasons for explaining things the way they do ;D
^Regardless of the “truth,” do I grin like I’m seeing old friends every time I see a lineup of VC on a bookshelf, no matter what their condition? You bet your a$$ I do.
Hit the jump for moar on this.
Some ppl who HAVE access refuse to read Prince Lestat, or a bunch of the other books, and won’t even give them a chance, so your lack of access might also reflect the fact that the books are not all equally popular. Your library might have purposely not included what it considers the less-popular installments.
Most of the fandom, in my experience, have had different gateway drugs to the series. I love collecting stories of how people first got into it (#I love these kind of stories tag). They first saw movie!IWTV or movie!QOTD and then read the corresponding book, or a friend gave them a random one from the series, or someone donated the whole series to them, etc. From there, some people read in order, some people skipped around.
THAT SAID, if you want to make VC fanworks (including fic, meta discussion, fanart, etc.) or do VC RP, it seems to help if you’ve read at least IWTV, TVL, and TVA (TVA might spoil previous events in canon but it’s really THE authority on Armand)(and read some fanfic!).
I think those VC contain the crux of the fan fave characters (Lestat, Louis, ((Nicki)), Gabrielle, Armand, Daniel, Marius) and scenes that have had alot of impact in developing the main characters. Your fanworks/RP will be richer if you know the background of the characters, because you’ll be able to refer to the events, or quotes, or take them as a jumping-off point in your work.
However, in the later books, you get new info, new characters, and new perspectives on previous events (example: Claudia’s diary entry in QOTD is heartwrenching).
@annabellioncourt had added this good commentary on that post and I agree with her 110% (except that I don’t love Vittorio but still):
I personally recommend that people read the first three books (IWTV, TVL, QOTD) and if they really enjoy it to try reading the rest of them.
But my caveat for that is that if they don’t care for Body Thief or Memnoch then still give Pandora and Vittorio a chance, then Armand, and if they enjoyed Armand and Pandora, to try Blood and Gold.
Its complicated, but so is the series, for such a seemingly straightforward concept of “vampires decide to write tell-all memoirs of their behind the scenes lives.”
It’s not in Armand’s nature to be simply happy. He has known joy and a sense of belonging at various points in his life; he’s even been in love. Currently he feels a sense of peace in being needed by those he spends time with.
Whether you ship Daniel/Marius or Daniel/Armand, I think Armand spends time with both Daniel and Marius; and feels loved to some extent by the whole coven. Armand likes to pull different members for trips to the galleries or shopping, but his favorite thing is lazing about the house playing chess with Louis or having a lively debate with David on art history, architecture being a favorite topic.
Occasionally he hunts with Lestat, where they can both feel a little more relaxed, away from the scrutiny of others (who actually encourage the friction w/o meaning to do so, just bc they’re afraid it will happen and keep making furtive glances at Lestat and Armand to the point where they do sometimes crack under the pressure and pick a fight over nothing).
If you wanted Armand’s current vampire happenings re: Prince Lestat, which I struggle to accept as canon YES EVEN NOW over a year later i know get out ma faaace here ya go:
According to Prince Lestat, Armand was living in a gorgeous old building (which, of course, he spruced up to his exacting luxurious specifications) on the upper east side of NY w/ Louis, Sybelle and Benji. Eventually Antoine (the unnamed musician vampire from IWTV, Lestat’s alleged 5th fledgling who had gone unmentioned up until PL) arrived at their door and was welcomed by all.
Throughout the story of Prince Lestat, Armand does little other than be supportive of Lestat, in a way that almost seems obsequious. Not much really happens for Armand, he rides out the whole drama pretty unscathed.
So currently he is pretty content with things and enjoying the company of Sybelle and Benji, and whoever else wants to chill with him.
You probably wanted a REAL answer, but I don’t want to spoil ya. Hit the jump for spoilation.
(For headcanons and to talk to a Viktor RPer, go to @viktor-de-lioncourt (who uses Jordan Sörbom as a FC) or @roselioncourt, both of whom care quite a lot more than I do about this character.)
Viktor is Lestat’s biological son, created during the course of Prince Lestat. In the mid-90s (I think?) Lestat had encountered some vampire doctor/scientists (they are vampires trained in and interested in the study of vampirism, running a lab just for that) and they *ahem* collect a biological sample from Lestat, with his full compliance.
HOWEVER, without his consent or knowledge, they use his sample to make baby Viktor! Baby Viktor has a mortal mother, so presumably, the DNA needed a little tinkering to make it work; Viktor is considered partially a clone, and in appearance he seems to be a carbon copy of Lestat (slightly taller, IIRC).
Lestat doesn’t know he fathered him until Viktor is no longer a baby (he’s at least 20?) and is used as a pawn in the shaking up of the vampiric matriarchy, so to speak. Father and son get reunited, everybody’s happy.
It’s unclear whether Lestat is also Viktor’s vampiric maker, he had asked Marius to be involved, and we might get more specifics in the next VC, Blood Paradise.
Louis is always Lestat’s fave, tho! We all know that.
// The number one thing that bothers me about Rose’s story in PL is that she both swallows and has acid thrown on her face and neck, including her eyes, and is somehow healed perfectly by the magic of Vampire blood. I realize it is a supernatural story, and that I am able to suspend my disbelief to believe that Vampires are real in the story and that they fly and all the other stuff. And their blood has been proven to heal wounds, though it has its limits. It cannot regrow limbs or organs lost before the transformation.
So Rose, who is both blind and mute by the end of the ordeal, should not have been able to be healed with Blood. I feel like it’s AR’s way of making everything okay for her special Mary Sue Self Insert. After all, if her plan all along is to kill off two strong female characters by the end of the book, one whom happens to be blind, and the other mute, then of course the special snowflake won’t be disabled either.
I firmly believe I’ve read Rose’s chapters more times than anyone by this point, all in the name of perfecting her nonexistent character. What happens is I find a trait mentioned in one sentence or one line and extrapolating out that to her whole life. Now, the same could be said of many side characters in VC. But I still feel like the end to Rose’s story could have been far more interesting than what we were given.
Not specifically about the acid (bc I have not reread her sections i just can’t bring myself to revisit that entire book yet), but I think you’ve actually articulated here what I couldn’t, about why I still can’t find love in my heart for her, an entire year after the release of that book. It’s not just me being a cranky old Earlier Canon Was Better preacher! *sobs* Thank you, nodominion-mun. It took guts to actually put this out there.
♛Ooooh I love a packed theatre! THE EXCITEMENT IS MORE PALPABLE THAN THE REEK OF POPPED CORN AND THIS SLUDGE PEOPLE CURRENTLY CALL CHEESE.
[Trailer for Krampus] The audience is all laughing at this horror trailer, I don’t think we’re supposed to be laughing, I think it’s meant to be terrifying but it’s too funny to be scary! 10/10 would watch this trailer again, take note.
[Trailer for the new Frankenstein movie] I’ve created a monster or two in my time, too, DON’T JUDGE PPL FOR MAKING A MONSTER NOW AND THEN *frowns* We have our reasons. Write that down.
He says it needs a love story? MINE IS A LOVE STORY. ALL MY STORIES ARE LOVE STORIES. WHY AREN’T THEY MAKING ANOTHER MOVIE FROM MY BOOKS GDI?
“What I saw was a dreamer facing defeat.” WHY DO PEOPLE ALWAYS RAIN ON MY PARADE TOO? I know that feel, Mr. Sharpe. We are the music makers… and we are the dreamers of dreams.
This girl and I would get along perfectly – laying in bed with good books, luxuriously wrapped in yellow velvet, awww yissss that is a well-spent evening.
I CAN DEMO THE WALTZ EUROPEAN STYLE LOUIS GET IN HERE (but maybe not holding a candle, Louis can’t always be trusted around candles and ME AT THE SAME DAMN TIME)
We should’ve let Claudia have a dog. Maybe a Papillon.
♥ Write that down.
Yes let’s go to the POST OFFICE GREAT IDEA FOR A FUN EXCURSION like, wtf? the POST OFFICE IS NOT A FIELD TRIP WORTH DOING. Oh wait, I seem to recall my own fledglings going to the post office JUST TO GET OUT OF THE HOUSE AND AWAY FROM ME OCCASIONALLY I AM OFFENDED THAT OFFENDS ME.
Seeing your lover with someone else hurts, doesn’t it????!!!
Hoe don’t do it!
She did it. Because how could she not?
My lover’s sister tried to kill me, too. Hurts, doesn’t it????!!!
The dog is dying! Now I’m actually upset.
“You’re monsters, both of you!” Where have I heard that before? Now this is hitting too close to home. I’M NOT CRYING YOU’RE CRYING KEEP TAKING NOTES.
You stabbed him iN THE FACE. IN THE FACE!! Rude. What about the groundrules?
Rule number 1: No touching of the hair or face… AND THAT’S IT!
We were ALL LAUGHING AS THOMAS PULLED THE KNIFE OUT. Should we not have been laughing? We are a terribly cruel audience.
Hissing, incidentally, is an excellent way to stun an opponent in a fight.
I don’t know what post it was, but if its any help, horror is more of an element while gothic is a genre/mode/mood (scholars like to butt heads on it), horror would be a madman breaking into your house and slaughtering you–it scares you, its dark and grim, but it doesn’t effect you beyond the scare.
A Gothic would have you anxious over the madman, questioning your belief in such a story, and possibly in God and superstition as a whole, while wearing something elegant in a gracefully lit room, with overtones of love running through that anxiety–the madman still shows up and there may still be a slaughter but there is a chase, there is hiding, there is terror instead of horror.
Compare Crimson Peak to Halloween, or Jane Eyre to any lifetime movie where a girl marries a person with a dark secret. Hammer Horror films were very good at treading the line between Gothic and Horror, as was the original Dracula novel. For another book comparison: Frankenstein is a Gothic, but IT is a horror.
Tragedy is common but not a necessity in the Gothic, it often comes as the price for including the terror. Crimson Peak ends in tragedy (and opens with it, as most Gothics do), but the terror and suspense and questions overpower the tragedy–if you haven’t seen it yet, I’ll tell this much: you leave it excited rather than depressed, there are a handful of questions like melting snow in your hand that drip away between your fingers before you can fully form them, ethereal and haunting visuals wash away the last of the nightmare, and then the credits roll–this is the Gothic, as opposed to pure tragedy where we see Horatio speaking of Hamlet’s nobility as he stands over the corpses of the last of his friends.