I’m pretty flexible with canon. A fanfic might choose to disregard everything after QOTD, and I can accept that when I’m reading that fic, or there could be fanart of stuff from PLROA and I can accept that at that time.
I think a fan should at least give every book in the series a chance, you don’t have to force yourself to finish every book, but to crack them open, just give them a chance. Bc I think there’s something of value in every single one of them!
I’ve read them all and I gotta say that if you don’t take them too seriously, it’s worth the effort. But then, I am pretty forgiving and I can do headcanon gymnastics for fun to explain stuff I don’t like, or treat it as AU.
Originally, I was cutting canon off at TVA, but then, a fanfic came along that required Merrick to be canon,and I was pretty floored by the fic. Among other things, it opened up options for L/L that weren’t possible before.
The tricky thing, too, is that AR herself has said that she herself doesn’t think the hybrid Mayfair/VC novels “wore well over time,” so she disregards them and asks us to do so, as well. I know there are ppl who loved BF and BC, so hey, more power to them, but those events aren’t mentioned in PL/ROA so, you can disregard those books if you choose to do so.
In the most general way tho, just in my own headcanon, I accept everything except BF, BC, PL/ROA. Those 4 are AU fanfic to me, except for select elements.
So basically I look at all of canon as a buffet, and I pick and choose what I want to accept, bc even in the most weird/problematic/(or, what we used to call “cracky”) of the books, there are some good moments/lines that I enjoyed!
^I love this fanart, he’s got his brother’s raven hair and green eyes <3, but Paul is described in canon as “He had the smoothest skin and the largest blue eyes. He was robust, not thin as I am now and was then… but his eyes… it was as if when I looked into his eyes I was standing alone on the edge of the world… on a windswept ocean beach. ” (IWTV) Not sure whether it’s canon or fanon but Paul was supposedly blond. He was 15 when he died.
I have a few other things collected in my #Paul de Pointe du Lac tag, like this portrait I think is pretty canon compliant:
Also, I know there is a fanart somewhere of Armand ranting that Marius is not Lestat’s sire.
Hmmm that is a very tough one, I know I’ve seen a fanart or two like that over the years, I’ll try and dig around in my personal archives for that. I do think Armand would take more issue at that than the idea that Lestat might have been Daniel’s maker.
I mean, and I shouldn’t go here but I will, bc I think this is one of the reasons I can’t watch movie!QOTD w/o someone with me, cracking jokes at it…
Marius gets unfairly mashed together with Magnus in movie!QOTD, essentially, bc he turns Lestat w/o consent. Therefore, Marius takes on the burden of having raped Lestat into being a vampire and there is no explicit reconciliation or apology for that crime whatsoever, but he and Lestat are kicking it together in Modern Times, with Lestat seemingly bitter at him and Marius seemingly smug back? It’s ooc and uncomfortable. I think Armand would be more annoyed at Marius taking on Magnus’ actions than he would be pissed at Lestat getting to claim Marius as his own sire, since QOTD!Lestat doesn’t seem all that thrilled with that pedigree.
BUT ANYWAY if anyone out there has fanart in which Armand is ranting about Marius not being Lestat’s sire, plz send it to me, or reblog and tag me!
I have one of Lestat and Armand fighting over Marius, and @garama‘s Antonio!Armand w/ QotD!Marius which is not quiiiite what you’re asking for but might like anyway… that I’ll rebagel after this…
So would [Armand] also rant that Lestat is not Daniel’s sire? Since I know people tend to confuse the movies Queen of the Damned and Interview with a Vampire since they state completely different sires from the books.
Ppl may blend together certain things, but I think anyone who’s seen the movies AND read the books takes the books as more true to canon, and the movies as adaptations, which is what they are. But if ppl only see movie!QOTD, I can’t really fault them for taking that info as their own canon, if they like it.
In MY opinion, since you’re asking: Armand will rant about it @ Daniel in private, but Armsy doesn’t tend to rant about anything he’s personally invested in when he’s in Lestat’s presence, preferring to keep a calm, collected, and unflappable profile as much as possible. Lestat knows this and loves to pester Armsy at any opportunity. There’s A LOT of joking around in the coven about those movies and how Daniel narrowly escaped having Lestat as his fictional maker…
Lestat: “You’d have liked that, wouldn’t you?” *makes a kissy face @ Dan*
Daniel: “Not saying I’d have liked it exactly, but it might’ve sped things up a little…”
Armand: “Are you saying I took too long, Daniel? I had my reasons…”
Lestat: “Dude I see someone I love, I turn them THAT NIGHT,” *snaps his fingers* “If I can possibly manage it, or the very next night, or at least that weekend, gotta strike when the iron is HOT!”
Armand: “Or else they might come to their senses and run as far away as they can get from you?”
Lestat: “HEY!”
Daniel: “I did run from you, Armand…”
Armand: “HEY!!”
Marius and Louis just sit back and watch all this, wishing that they had popcorn they could eat.
I say birb bc it makes it more palatable for me to make fun of it but I mean bird. They’re aliens with birdlike features. Sketchy spoiler under the cut. They’re characters in:
So you should read that… but I recognize that I am slightly a hypocrite bc I still haven’t finished it, but I have skimmed and been spoiled (upon request) so I know what happens and what they are. And…
Us @ Anne:
Anne @ us:
Sketchy and incomplete spoilers under the cut.
Again, not to go into very much detail bc I don’t know much detail, from what I gather:
The aliens are birdlike and are basically part of the origin story of the vampires, it goes back to the Lost City of Atlantis (actually “Atalantaya”)
And the bird aliens’ plan is to derive energy from humans on earth using the aliens’ own creatures, the Replimoids,
and idk, it’s very involved.
Like all great utopias, Atalantaya couldn’t last forever and was destroyed,
and in the act of destruction the Replimoids were scattered
and some of them died and their souls roamed the earth,
eventually, one of the souls was able to possess a human body (Akasha) in a supernatural accident that creATED THE VAMPIRES.
Every new vampire then got a piece of this alien’s soul.
So the vampires are/were in fact humans possessed/enhanced by their share of that one (sometimes dormant, sometimes cognizant and vocal) alien soul.
I’LL GIVE HER CREDIT IN THAT IT’S DEFINITELY ANOTHER FRESH TAKE ON VAMPIRE MYTHOLOGY.
^yah so I don’t have access to any photoshoppin’ tools rn but whatever… that is yours truly and @roselioncourt.
So LOTS of things happening and tbh I’m a little overwhelmed by all the info we’ve gotten in the last week, and the posts in response, some of which I’ve seen… and I was trying to keep up w/ it all on my phone the whole frickin’ time it was happening (I have 100+ tabs open *laughcries* and the phone is not a happy camper)… it’s a little overwhelming.
As Ron Swanson famously said: “Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing.” I’m gonna whole-ass all the things when I have the time this weekend, I got all your messages and plan to do massive replies. Also need to make a post about the PLROA booksigning, I took notes (altho there is a video of it on the official VC FB).
… I also have to read the new book (!!!)… I asked for spoilers and you should know that I *facepalmed* or “Oh, Anne”’d at almost every new piece of canon information.
Yes, we have a series of #unreliable narrators in the VC who tell the stories from their experiences, and their “facts” don’t always align.
[^X Remember these Social Network posters I did? I REMEMBER THEM]
There are many examples of canon “facts” being different in different books. One of the best examples of this is whether Louis visited Lestat sometime after he burned down the Theatre des Vampires, but before his interview w/ Daniel. Lestat says it didn’t happen.
Lestat acknowledges that IWTV was inaccurate but he doesn’t hold it against Louis:
“But this is the tale that was told by Louis in Interview with the Vampire, which for all its contradictions and terrible misunderstandings manages to capture the atmosphere in which Claudia and Louis and I came together and stayed together for sixty-five years.
… As for the lies he told, the mistakes he made, well, I forgive him his excess of imagination, his bitterness, and his vanity, which was, after all, never very great. I never revealed to him half my powers, and with reason, because he shrank in guilt and self-loathing from using even half of his own. ”
When ppl complain about the storylines/facts being inconsistent, well, I can only remind them that she wrote the books in the order in which she was exploring her characters. Did some things get lost or confused along the way? YES. I don’t read other series, so I can’t say that there is – or should be – a standard to which we hold authors and expect them to have consistent storylines/facts.
But from what I know of the Bible, considered a sacred canon by many ppl worldwide, even that text has unreliable narrators describing scenes which vary to the point of discrepancy.
I understand that inconsistencies can pierce the delicate suspension of disbelief for some readers. The seeming concerted deviation from the pre-established VC verse is a major reason why it’s impossible for me (and others) to accept PL in its entirety. So I know that feel, bro!
Basically what I’m saying is that the #unreliable narrator excuse quiets this type of confusion for me, for the information that I accept as canon.
We as a fandom are often asked which books are the most important in VC, which ones need to be read before the new one comes out, which books we consider to be canon…
Every reader has to decide that for themselves. It’s great when we can agree on things, but some things are left ambiguous, either by unreliable narrators, discrepancies in the information we’re given, or simply some variation of “these characters are #ooc to me and I REFUSE ALL OF IT >:[ ”
“Reflecting on the total lack of consensus amongst my readers on which is my best book, or which is my worst, really, readers write fascinating and substantive responses to "Memnoch the Devil.” Others dismiss it as a total failure or where the whole series went wrong. Some claim the earlier Chronicles are the best; others praise the later books. A few claim my husband, Stan, was the real author. A great many readers embrace the entire series, with all its twists and turns.” Anne Rice, 11/01/2016 [X]
(I didn’t know ppl claimed Stan had written the earlier books! He certainly might have had a big influence on them, at any rate) ^@claudias-ashes pointed this out to me, and I skimmed the responses, lots of praise in there for AR. It’s good to see her acknowledging that we do not all recognize all of the books as canon, and she seems fine with that, even offering advice to writers who may find themselves in a similar situation. It’s a good stance to have, she’s not forcing anyone to accept any or all of it, so when we have our fandom debates about things, keep in mind that AR’s opinion is probably, like mine, #your headcanon may vary.
The rest of her quote is under the cut (cut for length not spoilers), along with the info that:
Lestat is never gonna die! well good bc he is the gotdamn Sacred Core now
She’s already all revved up to get started on the next VC! for better or worse
Hit the jump…
“…When I ask, “Which is your favorite book?” The responses are all over. Is this good or bad? Frankly, every author wants to be read, and for the readers to care. But why do I spark so much controversy? I’ve never fully understood. I’m passionate, the books are passionate, and I’m profoundly thankful to say the readers are passionate. But have writers ever had so much fresh and authentic feedback before? I don’t think so. You’ve got to keep your head, keep steering the boat, keep re-entering your world and finding your place there as you continue. I don’t want Lestat ever to die, not even when I die. Perish the thought. For me, he can’t die. He’s too irrepressibly alive, and I am too connected to him. I’ve tried to run away from him, but it has never really worked. Now, I don’t want to run away at all. I want to sail right into a third “Prince Lestat” book— right from “Prince Lestat and the Realms of Atlantis,” and continue writing about Lestat as the monarch of a remarkable tribe. Vampire radio star, Benji Mahmoud with his broadcasts of news from the Vampire Court must be a metaphor for the author. What would it be like to slip into psychosis and wake up body and soul in Chateau de Lioncourt? Lovely. But the view from here is just fine.“
I think you should read #4 before PL. It’s got a lot of David Talbot, who you only know a teeny bit at the end of #3. He’s… different in PL.
I feel like skipping to PL, you miss other adventures and character development, amusing lines… pages about how beautiful Louis is, lol… I just feel like reading them in order is a richer experience.
At least you have more of an appreciation for the other main characters since you know their background.
Prince Lestat CAN be considered a stand alone, AR said herself it can be treated like that. It’s just so stand alone that I consider it very Alternate Universe. You’ll see what I mean.
*sigh* It’s so strange that ppl want to rush to PL, but I guess it’s bc it’s the currently newest VC and the upcoming book is a sequel to it.
Also, almost 2 yrs since its release, I still refuse to accept PL as canon. It’s AU to me.
So I don’t know how new you are, and what you’ve seen and/or read, but unlike many other fandoms: We do not all accept all of the books (and the 2 movies) in our series as CANON.
[^Louis doesn’t really approve of the series as a whole.]
All of us are into VC for our own reasons, and there are some ppl who are into it specifically for certain characters, time periods, cosplay ideas, etc. Ppl whose interests are similar tend to find eachother and make closer friendships within the larger fandom. Anything that you do not accept as canon can be considered AU or written off as being told by an unreliable narrator, bc all of our characters are unreliable narrators! They all know someone in the coven will read their account of things and they may *~embellish~* the truth if they want to do so ;] Scenes are often retread from different characters’ POVs. You can choose which version you want to trust. Maybe there are elements of both that you find acceptable.
Even AR doesn’t accept all of the books as canon: she said that
Prince Lestat does not follow the VC/Mayfair hybrid books (Blood Canticle was intended to be the last VC). She wrote PL almost as a stand alone book and lots of ppl seem to be coming into the fandom from that book without reading IWTV which is fine, and more power to them! You don’t need to read the books that lead up to it but you’ll get a deeper appreciation of some of the main characters if you at least read the first 3 books in the series before you read PL.
Hit the jump for more, cut for length.
Re: differing headcanons: We still have disagreements about what Louis’ hair really looks like, bc some ppl were influenced by movie!IWTV, the official graphic novels, and the fanart which interprets it in different ways. We still disagree over whether Lestat was 20 or 21 when he was turned, and AR herself doesn’t always answer these canon questions explicitly herself (maybe bc she left it ambiguous on purpose, or she forgot, or whatever other reasons).
Re: PL: There are parts of PLI can accept, just not the whole thing. There are alot of new characters introduced who I personally did not find as engaging as the old set, and the old set did not always behave in ways that seemed true to their own previously established characterizations throughout the book. Other ppl have different opinions. We have RPers who chose the new characters to RP, so they probably accept these new characters as canon.
I probably won’t accept Prince Lestat and the Realms of Atlantis as anything more than AU either, bc it follows PL.
Reasons why fandom won’t accept PLROA as canon:
The main reason would be that AR herself has told us to disregard the Mayfair crossover books. In terms of her own headcanon, she didn’t want to tie these in with the events that follow in PL. So her own books diverge from her own timeline.
A secondary reason would be the earlier books in the series are generally accepted as the stronger stories with the characters best written.
I-want-my-IWTV 