Hi sorry me again. What are your thoughts on the weird casting choice of Antonio Banderas for Armand in IWTV¿¿? Have you considered….A meme of it!? D:

(@luthi69 beat me to the punch on that one!)

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[WWDITS/IWTV mashup by @luthi69 please reblog from the link or the source]

I admit that I have a lot of nostalgia for Antonio!Armand, so it doesn’t seem as weird to me… I hope the new adaptation(s) have a more canon-compliant Armand bc I think it can be handled in a way that wasn’t possible in the early 90′s, the pedophilia inherent in an adult-looking vampire being in a relationship (of some kind) with a teenage-looking vampire, even though they are ~90 and ~400 years old, respectively.

There were a lot of good reasons for casting a non-compliant Armand, and I talk about it in my #Defending Antonio tag, @vraik captured the taboo aspect of it very well [X]:

HEY. HEY. YOU KNOW WHO I LOVE? 

Antonio Banderas Armand. 

I ranted about this at length once, and realized it might be worth excising that particular section from my recaps and letting it stand on its own. SO LET ME TELL YOU A THING.

“Not only does Banderas give one hell of a performance, clearly entranced by Louis and convinced his ruthlessness is an acceptable means to an end (and then Louis dumps him immediately and Banderas’ crushed look that WHOOPS OVERESTIMATED just destroyed me). It’s really genuine, maybe the movie’s best after Cruise and Dunst, and at least half his dialogue is lifted without change from the books. But all that gets overlooked, because he doesn’t look like a teenager. And there’s a certain fairness to that – Armand’s body adds a dimension to his interactions with others as much as Claudia’s does. But now let me give you a hot dose of context.

In 1994, it was still a pretty common argument to conflate homosexuality with pedophilia, particularly with gay men.  THINK OF THE CHILDREN, Y’ALL. The movie already had to deal with the Claudia/Louis relationship, which only tenuously steps the worst landmines of creepiness, as we discussed, by avoiding physicality and giving mentally grown Claudia all the power. So, the filmmakers maybe didn’t want to stack, on top of that stack of gunpowder, a relationship with yet another underage character, particularly one that so played into existing stereotypes.

Then there’s the fact that, by virtue of the script, Louis’ feelings for Armand are a lot more explicitly tender and obvious than his relationship with Lestat. Back then, it was a big deal if you asked an actor to, gasp, play gay. Heavens forfend. But Banderas, in addition to being a handsome fellow and a marketable star, had also appeared in Philadelphia in 1993 (aka the movie where the Noble Gay dying nobly from AIDS is nice enough to teach A Straight to be a better person before he croaks). While their scenes were scrubbed of basically any intimacy, he was playing Tom Hanks’ lover, and apparently that was proximal enough to The Gay that he was an okay dude to ask. And then he fucking killed it with the material he was given it, in spite of the fact that the majority of his scenes were opposite the totally catatonic Pitt (who has made no bones about how much he haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaated being in this movie). He’s a champ, and a treasure, come at me.”

http://i-want-my-iwtv.tumblr.com/post/84937368287/faceofabotticelliangel-faceofabotticelliangel

i-want-my-iwtv:

faceofabotticelliangel:

faceofabotticelliangel:

faceofabotticelliangel:

Things I come home to.

#MONSIEURLEROCKSTAR #HHAHA REMEMBER HOW IT WAS IN FRONT OF EVERYONE???????????? #)

i-want-my-iwtv

:

such delish *u* altho Lestat was pretty much comatose… and it did end in Armand getting…

Ohh yes I do hope for more A/L stuff in PL since that last we saw if them two together was heartbreakingly sweet and tbh I wanna see more of how their relationship has built. You know i was talking with
monsieur-le-rockstar
over the phone a week ago about how Armand, having never been properly taught by Marius or the Children of Darkness how to approach the scene in Palais Royale, really had no clue Lestat would reject his gesture of ‘vampire romance’ —for lack of a better word. That and Lestat himself had NO clue how that kind of thing happened because he still was confused about how to vampire and like—that whole scene would have gone entirely different I think if they had communicated more (also if Armand stopped with that glamouring). But ye…I could ramble about the palais royale scene bc it is just—another part of tvl that really set up and defined Lestat and Armand’s relationship….)

ABSOLUTELY AGREED. The first time I read that scene I was all “Ooooh Armand you lil monster! Beating earned.” But yeah, after all the subsequent VC information, I see that scene very differently now, more like: “Lestat you dumbass, he wasn’t attacking, that was leurve/making-out vampire style omg”

Well it may have been some of both but still. 

I came across this old thread digging for smtg else, and there’s a good point here. Armand had some mixed feelings about fledgling!Lestat, both wanting to crush him into submission, but also, he might have been attracted to him. 

@faceofabotticelliangel​ makes a good suggestion that Armand might have been trying to seduce Lestat in the vampiry way, which he hadn’t really been taught, and Lestat was a fresh vampire and didn’t know that’s what it was, so of course, when Lestat rejected him, of course Armand’s going to react badly:

And as he struggled, as he sought to resurrect himself with a burst of force, he shot his declaration at me that he would kill me because he had my strength now. He’d drunk it out of me and coupled with his own strength it would make him impossible to defeat.

^I don’t know whether Armand really believed what he was saying but it must have really hurt to be rejected. Whether or not Armand really was trying to seduce, @faceofabotticelliangel​ makes a good point, “that whole scene would have gone entirely different I think if they had communicated more (also if Armand stopped with that glamouring)… another part of tvl that really set up and defined Lestat and Armand’s relationship….)”

http://i-want-my-iwtv.tumblr.com/post/84937368287/faceofabotticelliangel-faceofabotticelliangel

I was reading about how in theatre characters of young boys were usually portrayed by women and I think that’s a good idea for casting Armand. A petite woman could easily fit the description and since she would already be an adult when starting the filming she would go through very little physical change unlike a teenage boy. There are a lot of woman who even in their 30s can pass as teens whereas adult men who can pass as teens are rare.

That sounds like a great idea to me! I bet AR would be down, too, as much as she loves Shakespeare, the way his plays do that. As you say, it’s been done for a long time. Or a transman. I wouldn’t require the actor to be cismale.

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^In Shakespeare in Love (1998), Gwyneth Paltrow played Viola De Lesseps, passing as male actor Thomas Kent. In this screencap, I think “Thomas” is about to kiss a male actor who is playing a female role, another thing Shakespeare would do.

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^She still looked like a woman to me, but it didn’t matter, bc the other characters saw her as male, they believed it, so I could suspend disbelief. That was probably part of the cheeky quality of that film, that we as viewers still saw her as female, but everyone else seemed so easily fooled, like Clark Kent w/ glasses is so obviously NOT Superman! Pfffft.

But yeah, the idea of casting a woman or another gender to play a youthful male character like Armand? VERY COOL SIGN ME TF UP.*

*I mean, not suggesting casting me specifically bc I don’t think there’s enough movie magic to transform me into a male character, but conceptually, I support this 😉

Leading the wolf to slaughter

A little breakdown of this scene, re: why I loved Tom’s Lestat so much in this scene, since we’re talking about it.

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^Claudia leads him in, and he’s so trusting. When he sees the boys there, he is not immediately very pleased. He actually looks a little disappointed. The house rule is not to bring victims into the house, and she brought them in, is he going to have to lay down the law again? Bad timing for it, since he’s trying to make peace with her.

She glances up at him to gauge his reaction but looks away before he can meet her gaze. She’s thrilled with what she’s about to do and doesn’t want him derailing her from her mission. 

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^I use this gif a lot for “such feels,” but there’s really more going on here, and not necessarily happiness. She’s told him that the boys are the gift to him. He starts w/ a facepalm, bc, hey, Lestat would actually rather not kill children.* He tries to go for adult evildoers. It’s clearer in TVL than in movie!IWTV, but he does tell Louis in an earlier scene, “Evildoers are easier, and they taste better.”**

Lestat is also very guarded in his body language here, all closed off w/ his arms across his chest (we don’t usually see him this closed off in the movie). When he shows his face, he’s not smiling at first, bc, this wasn’t really the kind of truce he would have wanted. But then he rallies, shakes his head a little bit, and tries to smile, probably tells himself inwardly, “She did this for me, she has good intentions…”

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^”Well, you certainly have… outdone yourself,” he says. He’s struggling to compliment her, that hesitation could have led to a criticism. Trying to convince himself that this is a peace offering and to reign in his usual edgy sense of humor. The main rule in their home was always “Never [kill] in the house” and she wants him to share this kill. In. The. House. A rule she’s broken countless times. He’s still guarded, still has his arms up protectively.

The smile fails as he looks over the boys like he’s looking at something unappetizing at a buffet. For me, that would be the wilted salad area.

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^There’s a full second pause as he looks at her bc he’s still struggling to believe it was all this easy. Then he asks: “We forgive each other, then?” This is Lestat without any of his bravado, no games, not asking as her maker, just as someone who loves her and wants her love, too. This is the Lestat who spent most of his childhood unloved or beaten down for trying to find a place where ppl would love him ;A;

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^There’s almost a full second pause as she looks at him – bc she doesn’t really forgive him – and then says: “Yes” She’s lying right to his face, so evil! If you cover her mouth, her eyebrows don’t change at all with that smile. But there is still a chance to abandon her plan if she wants to.

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^Having secured the peace, putting his trust in her about this gift being OK to consume, he has this little sigh of relief; his usual confidence comes back in, you can see a hint of a smile as he turns away.

(This victim is one of the moments in the film that really pushed the envelope for its time, when Lestat bites into the child. It’s actually a lot less homoerotic/pedophilic than in the book, where he gets his hands wrapped up in the kid’s shirt. Unlike when he bites adults and we see his face, here, we see him from behind. It makes it less sexual, he didn’t choose this victim, it’s seems like it’s more about the consumption.)

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^Anyway… he thinks she spiked their blood with absinthe bc he immediately feels drugged/drunk from it.

She tells him it’s laudanum, and he repeats that word, has he heard of it before? Probably not, bc she tells him what it does. 

So right up until the moment she explicitly lays it out for him, he still believes they’ve reconciled, and even that she flavored the blood for him as an extra consideration! It’s a very painful betrayal, specifically bc he wanted to believe her SO BADLY that he ignored all the red flags ;A;

You could say he deserved this betrayal, but I think this scene is part of what makes Tom’s Lestat so very good. Even as he’s led into getting his punishment, you still feel sorry for him, it’s hard to hate a monster when he’s being this trusting and gentle and really wanting to well… not be a monster.


I recognize that this is a social media site so you are welcome to reblog and comment and engage on this, but please do so respectfully, and keep in mind that #your headcanon may vary, and we are all entitled to our own interpretations/opinions about canon, and about movie!IWTV.    

(Asterisked notes under the cut.)


* It’s implied that Lestat and Claudia finished off whole families together in an earlier scene in the film, including children, but we’ve only seen him kill adults on screen up to this point. In the book, it’s Claudia who insists on killing families (her own, IIRC), and she kills a mother and daughter who worked domestically in the flat for Louis and Lestat. Lestat rarely kills children in the books, typically it’s only in moments of extreme emotional weakness.Tom would have known this, bc he read books 1-4.

**

“Evildoers are easier, and they taste better.” – This is what Lestat tells Louis to try to get him to acclimate to the idea that killing is okay, and in fact, some ppl need to be killed anyway, to protect the general population (like Lestat killing the wolves to save the villagers back in the Auvergne). But in the books it’s implied that innocent blood tastes better, which makes it harder to resist. “…these victims had been taken in the perfect semblance of love. The very blood seemed warmer with their innocence, richer with their goodness.” (TVL)

I might do more of these if you’re interested, but they do take a long time to put together. We’ll see…

On the topic of casting Armand, has Anne Rice said anything about Claudia? What direction do you think they’ll go with her in the new show?

I don’t think AR has said anything about casting Claudia specifically.* It’s another tough role to cast age-wise, bc she’s supposed to be just barely 5 years old, and 5 year olds definitely age.

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^X @claudia-lilvampire found this pic of Christopher Mason and his daughter Basie (she looks closer to 4 here?), very Lestat and Claudia ❤

Casting Claudia will probably not be an issue if they start with TVL, bc Claudia’s only in IWTV, and just mentioned in later books. But… let’s cast an actress as Lestat’s little sister for TVL, the 8th de Lioncourt child, and then have her play Claudia, too! The resemblance would be so heartbreaking! ;A; Mireille de Lioncourt, so named by @viaticumforthemarquise.

For funsies tho, I must inform you… awhile back, @hyperbeeb suggested Mia Talerico [X], who just turned 9 on 9/17/16, and I have to agree!

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Mia’s had a long career already (IMDB says she was eleven months old when she started filming Good Luck Charlie, so that’s 7 yrs of acting, being directed, being comfortable in front of the cameras, etc.). I did a whole post about her here. She’s pretty much my headcanon when I write Claudia.

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^Perfect disingenuous apology, very Claudia.

Hit the jump for more thoughts, cut for length.


IIRC, there was alot of difficulty finding a 5 yo talented enough to play Claudia in movie!IWTV. Kirsten Dunst was the first they auditioned of one hundred actresses, varying in amount of experience, from around ages 5-12. The 5 yr olds struggled with the intensity that the part required… so I wouldn’t mind if they aged her up to 10 or 11. If they cast a 5 yo who looks perfect but can’t act like the frustrated adult inside, it won’t really work. Having a slightly older Claudia also makes it more upsetting for her as a character bc she’s so close to getting that older body she so desperately wanted ;A;

If Claudia’s in the new adaptations at all, I think it will be as a ghost (in later books, she sort of haunts the Rue Royale, Louis, and Lestat), which could also be animated and voice acted by an adult.

*tbh I don’t follow AR’s FB or her Official VC FB feed religiously. I wait for ppl to send me specific things. It’s just too much for me to follow her myself.

Do you think that the turning of Louis would have been inevitable even if he had gone to France like his brother wanted? Also, How do you think Louis’ history and personality would have changed with a different sire? Also, Hi :)

Hi, back! *waves*

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[^Mortal Louis opening up his shirt for reasons]

If Louis had gone back to France like his brother wanted, well… who knows what his life would have been like? His brother wanted him to sell “everything we owned, and use
the money to do God’s work in France.”
So, would they move the women into a convent to be nuns; freeing Louis and Paul to become priests or monks? In Paris, or some other part of France? 

If Louis was a priest in Paris, would he have drawn the attention of any of the vampires there? The Theatre des Vampires was set up and had been going for some 10 years by the time Lestat met Louis. Armand was there. If he met Louis as a mortal, would he have been interested in him at all? I don’t know. Part of what drew Armand to Louis was his connection to Lestat. Would Louis still be as appealing without that connection? Would he be appealing as a companion to any other vampires roaming around in France at that time?

Those are all questions to consider. 

I don’t think anyone would have chosen him to vampire, if he were some French priest, probably dissatisfied with his life choices. They might have just killed him for fun, though. The TdV killed innocents and they seemed to really enjoy killing the beautiful ppl, and he still would have been attractive enough for that.


As to Louis having a different maker, that’s why I couldn’t answer this ask sooner. It’s too big a question for me!

Physically, he probably would have been better off. He was Lestat’s 3rd in about a decade (and Lestat himself was still very young!), contributing to his ‘weakness’ as a vampire, and lack of some of the vampiric gifts that others can get when they’re turned.

But I think no matter who turned him, or how strong he was, he would still struggle with the whole killing people issue. Marius might have helped guide him into it more slowly. As problematic as Marius became later, in earlier canon we knew him as a mentor figure, and if he had just been that, with no Amadeo situation, he might have been a good maker for Louis. 

I’ll open it up to everyone else bc it’s just too big a question: Who would have made a better maker for Louis, and why? 

I like to think that Erza Miller (playing Leon Depuis) is a good cast for louis or nicholas (probably nicholas since erza is good at the “losing my mind” look)

Ezra has this sweet mischevious/devilish quality that’s more Nicolas than Louis to me, but @thelionscrimsonclaws liked Ezra as Louis on this post.

I haven’t seen this movie but I should. Ezra looks great in period costume. I saw him in We Need to Talk About Kevin, he was gr9! I’d screentest him for Nicki.

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^Lookit this sassy trying-not-to-smile smile ;D

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^This little flash of smile…

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^Idk what to call this except I really like it…

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^”TF U SAY ABOUT LESTAT” He bout to smack a bitch.

James Paxton as lestat though

I haven’t actually watched him in anything, I don’t watch him on Eyewitness, but I have seen some borderline NSFW gifs of it on tumblr, and…

I see potential… Can’t quite articulate why, not even being sarcastic. He seems to have the right blend of cockiness and tenderness, and he’s already experienced with making out with another guy on screen, and it would be gr9 to have that in the new VC adaptation.

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^He’s also pretty w/o being like, a model. He has a boy-next-door quality. I imagine that some of what drew ppl to him as a mortal was his blend of confidence, shyness, and caring, those are the things that make what would have been a slightly-above-average-looking guy into someone really gorgeous <3. Then vampiring enhanced what he already had going for him.

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[^X]

So yeah I would screentest him! Send his name over to AR.

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Some borderline NSFW gifs of him under the cut, more of this kinda Lestat/Nicolas ship: #philkas at @jamespaxt0n​ ❤


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[X]

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If the scene didn’t take place at all how did Louis get such an accurate description of Lestat’s condition? If I recall correctly Armand mostly spent time with Lestat after he and Louis had parted and even if he had visited once before why would he give Louis the full disclosure? It’s not like Louis can take images from Armand’s mind either. Louis might have exaggerated the patheticness of the conversation to get a reaction from Lestat but it’s hard for me to believe that they didn’t meet at all

Re: @firelight-fading​‘s post: “How many of you actually feel that Louis’ visiting Lestat at the end of IWTV and the conversation that followed actually happened? Lestat insists that it didn’t, but both him and Louis are unreliable narrators…”

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Hey, look, you are free to believe in whichever unreliable narrator you want! Clearly we don’t all agree on this. I still don’t know what I believe, but I lean towards it happening, that they met, just maybe not as Louis described it.

Anon says: If the scene didn’t take place at all how did Louis get such an accurate description of Lestat’s condition?… 

It’s not like Louis can take images from Armand’s mind either.

^Louis had seen a pretty battered Lestat around 1865, and then he thought Lestat was destroyed in the TdV fire, so he’s probably guessing that his maker looks like toast now, if he’s in fact still alive. 

Lestat acknowledges in TVL that Armand came around to pester him in NOLA, which, yes, is presumably after Armand and Louis went their separate ways. But Armand could have visited Lestat before that separation, or gotten the information from another vampire who had seen Lestat in NOLA. They’re probably not the only vampires in New York during the time that they’re there. 

Anon says: even if he had visited once before why would he give Louis the full disclosure? In IWTV, Armand tells Louis that Lestat is in NOLA:

“Then, finally, Armand urged me in another way. He told me something he’d concealed from me since the time we were in Paris. 

“Lestat had not died in the Theatre des Vampires. I had believed him to be dead, and when I asked Armand about those vampires, he told me they all had perished. But he told me now that this wasn’t so. Lestat had left the theater the night I had run away from Armand and sought out the cemetery in Montmartre. Two vampires who had been made with Lestat by the same master had assisted him in booking passage to New Orleans.

^So how Armand knew this, we don’t know, but I assume he read it from Lestat’s thoughts when he visited Lestat in NOLA prior to Armand’s separation with Louis, or from another vampire who had seen Lestat passing through NY.

Armand wants Louis to see Lestat for himself bc he wants Louis to “come back to life.”

” `You care about nothing …’ [Armand] was saying. And then he sat up slowly and turned to me so again I could see that dark fire in his eyes. `I thought you would at least care about that. I thought you would feel the old passion, the old anger if you were to see him again. I thought something would quicken and come alive in you if you saw him . . . if you returned to this place.’

^Sorry Armand, fail on that 😛

Whether Louis actually met with Lestat the way he described it in IWTV is up for debate, but Louis might have gotten such an accurate description of Lestat’s condition verbally from Armand. Perhaps, as you say, Louis might have exaggerated the patheticness of the conversation to get a reaction from Lestat, as he was trying to provoke Lestat into coming out of wherever he was hiding.

Or maybe Louis just wanted to tell his story to another soul, like confession, and get some feeling of absolution from the act of telling, maybe it felt good to invent this portion for no good reason. I don’t personally think that’s very IC for Louis but… who knows?

Can we just look at this for a minute….

Two vampires who had been made with Lestat by the same master had assisted him in booking passage to New Orleans.

^This used to really irritate me, these two vampire siblings of Lestat who never appeared again in canon, I have to assume Armand invented them for whatever reason (make Louis jealous that he didn’t help Lestat himself?) or that Daniel’s publisher added them in for whatever reason *shrugs*

God, am I the only one that liked Tom Cruise as Lestat (besides AR)? Honestly, my headcanon for Lestat is a mix of tom cruise’s lestat and my own imagination. I thought he was good and looked the part, but everyone seems to hate him… Also, where is the love for baby jenks? Yes, she was only in the book for maybe 20 pages, but she was cool and made me laugh. There’s no fanart or anything for her and that makes me kinda sad

You are preaching to the choir re: Tom Cruise ;D I LOVE HIM SO MUCH.

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^This is one of my favorite production stills of him. He’s just perfect. Menacing, charming, at the edge of reason and also in total control of the scene… but this is largely in his acting and ppl who disliked him may not have given him a chance like AR did (you know, she initially railed against his casting, and after seeing a screening of the film, completely changed her mind and sang his praises). 

Ppl argue that he doesn’t look like Lestat, and that’s true, he’s a little vertically challenged and he doesn’t have *~iridescent grey-blue eyes~*, he doesn’t have *~a gorgeous mop of pampered yellow hair.~* The hair and makeup they did for him work with his natural coloring, and they tried going brighter blond, didn’t really mesh well. Ppl also argue about his personal life, and Scientology, all that mess… but I don’t factor that into his performance as Lestat, personally.

But he more than makes up for all that in his acting, imo. He did his homework for the role and put a massive amount of effort into it, you can tell that he loves the character. Tom Cruise re: Lestat:

“I used the books as a reference for me and, y’know, you have to read them, especially Interview with the Vampire, because it’s from Louis’s point of view, you have to read it very carefully to find the clues to who Lestat is, and y’know… his loneliness, and his, his personal… struggle. He recognizes that Louis’ a unique… being, and if he wanted… y’know it’s that whole thing, and Lestat gives him the choice – very clearly – even in the book Lestat gives Louis the choice, uh, and that’s something I felt very strongly about… and when Lestat asks Louis, “Do you still want death? Or have you tasted it enough?” He’s really asking Louis:

“Do you still wanna die? I mean, now you know, you’ve come close to death, is this what you want?”

Re: Baby Jenks – Yeah I liked her alot, too! The way her narrative was written was refreshing, unlike any canon before it. Concisely stated but rich and believable backstory. She deserved to have more screentime. More fanart of her would be gr9!

Baby Jenks, like Nicolas, and a few other characters w/ less “screentime” in VC… it was surprising to me when ppl started digging them up and loving them, but I’ve come to realize that these are characters that:

A) still have some blank slate left, so fans can draw their own headcanons on them; and,

B) (part 1) seem to be characters that this generation relate to more. Nicolas practically has a canon mental illness, and he suffers for it. Ppl saw themselves in him and the representation felt good, that and author recognized their existence, even though he didn’t get a happy ending, and we love characters like that.

B) (part 2) Baby Jenks didn’t get a treasure chest of money and jewels or a frickin’ castle when she was turned; she had a biker gang and was so much richer bc she wasn’t alone! Her backstory was briefly sketched, but it was in powerful strokes; she was a BAMF in her own way, refusing to go quietly into that good night. And that’s inspiring, and we love characters like that.