Whether you mean the movie or book series, it’s true that VC began its life as a short story which AR expanded into the first novel [X]. After it received so much positive feedback, there was a sequel, and then another, and then another, and here we are with a whole series!
The IWTV movie took something like 20 yrs in production and talks and film industry issues before it could finally get made. The homosexuality and the whole pseudo-pedophilia edge (Louis biting Armand’s Denis, Claudia in general) also made the story and casting extremely difficult.
At one point, I think Tom Cruise had the rights, and was down for making a sequel to IWTV, but I think the homophobic backlash pretty much turned him off the project 😦 It just seemed to ruin any sequels from happening for awhile.
Movie!QOTD was released in 2002, and iirc, doesn’t have much of the controversial issues that were in movie!IWTV, and is almost a stand-alone story due to how much it distorted canon, but some ppl really love it and find it nostalgic anyway!
Will a doge twinkie appease you a little? As a peace offering! I offer it in all seriousness, no sarcasm at all. He’s much twinkier than Armand, and delishus, too ❤
I thought I answered very thoughtfully here, and I guess I’m having trouble reconciling your statements here in yellow, (my own comments in blue):
I totally managed to misunderstand you, and then I got exactly what you meant? Are you concerned bc I put those opinions in blue under the cut? I do that to keep the post from going on too long, as ppl have told me that my responses can clutter their dash, so it’s more respectful, but for this post, I’ll just let it all hang out and go long, ok?
TL;DR: Hopefully we can agree that text sometimes sounds more or less emotional than it was intended when written, I certainly did not intend to be at all offensive or act like my opinion is any way the definitive authority on the matter, nor was I trying to be rude in the slightest, and I’m sorry that it came across that way, if it did.
Does it really suck for Armand to be in a position of being treated like a sex object? Yes, I bet it does. But he is aware, he is a student of sexuality, he’s interested in it and uses ppl’s perceptions to his advantage.
However, I recognize that this is a hot-button kind of topic in our fandom, so, okay, it’s worth delving into it a little deeper! Re: Armand being a “twink,” Part 2:
Yes, it must suck to be forever seen as a sex object and having ppl throw themselves at you. And yet! There are all kinds of genders and ages of ppl who experience that on a daily or weekly basis.
Look at this recent story, just a few months ago (sorry I picked what appears to be a “pretty” cishet white girl, it’s just the most recent example I could think of and find an article for):
“A young woman is hitting back at the idea that women ‘invite’ catcalling by showing how it ‘doesn’t matter’ what you are wearing, it still happens.” [Source]
There are so many of these stories on a daily basis, all over the world, right in your face. It’s very disheartening. Sometimes it goes a lot farther than it did w/ Ms. Brandt. No matter how the victim is dressed. No matter what the victim looks like or acts like.
How does this apply to Armand tho??
I went over this with a fandom friend who preferred not to be credited, and they said some very smart things, which I’ll include below.
First, tho, I want to mention the obvious: our canon has a lot of sexuality in it. ALOT. Whether you believe the vampires are asexual or fully sexual in terms of penetrative sexual intercourse? That’s up to each reader to decide. We know AR’s stance on it, that they express sensuality differently than penetrative sexual intercourse. I have no need to convince anyone of what my own headcanon is re: this set of fictional characters’ sex lives.
Secondly, a lot of VC RP and fandom discussion often brings up sex as it pertains to this set of fictional characters. I would guess that’s because humans in general are intrigued by sex for so many reasons, not the least of which is the younger fandom ppl coming in who are curious about the role that sex plays in a relationship. Is it the real glue that binds a ship together? Can a ship sail on sex alone? SEX!
How does this apply to Armand tho????
Okay! Now we can address this. Fandom Friend says:
“I think you do actually agree with each other, though [Anon’s] message is confusing in that they start off sounding like they are simplifying [Armand] (he’s ‘just’ a twink) but end up defending his own pov, [which you also pointed out in your response], that he is well-aware of how he is perceived and that he mocks that tendency, to reduce him to a beautiful, sexually attractive youth/boy.”
Armand is one of the characters in canon that we tend to tease about sex often (more in fandom spaces than in canon), bc he had a rich sexual history in his mortal life (first against his will, and then as part of his education and completing the experiences of a Full Life). In vampirism he maintained the appearance that drew so many to him sexually.
Fandom Friend continues:
“it’s true that [Armand] is wanted by everyone, there’s a very nice quote somewhere in QotD about it, but the sexual component in Armand’s character is such an integral part of his amazing mental manipulations, that it really has nothing to do with sex in the end.”
Here’s the quote, where we can see Armand “paying forward” his own education on Daniel:
“Men and women fell in love with Armand, of course, “so innocent, so passionate, so brilliant!” You don’t say. In fact, Armand’s power to seduce was almost beyond his control. And it was Daniel who must bed these unfortunates, if Armand could possibly arrange it, while he watched from a chair nearby, a dark-eyed Cupid with a tender approving smile. Hot, nerve-searing, this witnessed passion, Daniel working the other body with ever greater abandon, aroused by the dual purpose of every intimate gesture. Yet he lay empty afterwards, staring at Armand, resentful, cold.“ – Queen of the Damned
“This is not Armand being sexual, it’s him being manipulative and Danny knows, which is why he is so pissed off!”
Armand is just as interested in sex as we are! He’s interested in the physical mechanics, he’s interested in the emotional connections that can be forged, he’s interested in the mystery of the act performed in a multitude of ways.
He’s interested in it from the perspective of deriving dominance through the act. Marking one’s property. So many other things that I haven’t discovered myself yet about what sex is!
So what’s my point with all this? Like I said before, in general I don’t like to categorize characters as one thing, they’re multi-dimensional, and they evolve and change through canon, despite their physical appearances staying the same.
Anyway I don’t want to argue the point any further, #your headcanon may vary!
♛*leans forward, fidgets with his sleeve, leans back again, smoothing it out, avoiding the question*
If I may quote from a blogger here, @lovefreeanddiehard, “This is truly a historic year. We’re either going to elect a woman, a Jew, the Zodiac Killer, or the start of the Fourth Reich.” [X]
Not that I fully agree with all of those characterizations, but by any definition it is an assortment unlike any other I’ve ever seen.
We don’t vote, it’s your world, not ours. So I can’t offer support for your choice of Mrs. Clinton (her stage presence and fashion sense has vastly improved since the 90′s, I’ll give her that). As Louis put it so well, “we forfeited it when we lost our mortality. We have no right now to interrupt their struggle. If we do we rob them of victories that have cost them too much!”
Of course I would love to… take Mr. Trump out for dinner *licks fangs* and stay to say grace when we’re done. But Louis won’t let me extend such an invitation or make further opinions on that. The more we hear from him, neither of us like the sound of “President Trump,” though *shudders*
In previous years we would gather and watch the debates together, Marius, Armand, Daniel, David, Jesse, Louis, and I… Sometimes Gabrielle, Maharet, or Pandora would join us if they were in town anyway. Catching Gabrielle up to the current political climate is my task and it’s barely doable at all because she tunes me out; her eyes glaze over and I can tell she’s 1,000 miles away on a mountaintop somewhere *ragged sigh* Exhausting.
After the televised action, we’d have debates ourselves. It was lively, it was good. This time around, we seem to all be taking it in separately, or with those we already cohabit with. Louis and I watch these debates mostly in silence, laughing occasionally at old rhetoric we’ve heard before and being grateful when we hear the voice of reason speak through one of them.
We’re cautiously optimistic about it all. We hope for the best for you all.
Issues we’re always interested in hearing about from the politicians: gun control, immigration (we’re immigrants, ourselves), the stock market (if you expect any of us to get real jobs, you’re quite deluded), education, etc…. the violence that’s erupted between the police force and the people they’re meant to serve and protect has been appalling. We’re beyond shocked that this happens in broad daylight, when we can’t stop it! We’re numb from every new video of another innocent battered or gunned down by a uniformed man. We would pursue those ourselves, if only they didn’t become such noticeable victims to take *frowns* But I’m getting off-track.
We’re invested in your future, because we do exist in your world. We want you to thrive in it. So that we can perch in a bar, watch you and your gaggle of friends, all the beautiful colors and shapes you’re made of, and then we go out and destroy the real monsters who would seek to cut your lives short for the contents in your wallet (or worse). We have our place, and we “interrupt your struggle” only on the margins, only in the way we must. I’m certainly not going out into the jungles and killing innocentanimals. So I’ll kill the rapist lurking in the alley by your apartment, that’s fair enough for interruption.
“Then kill me!” he answered. “I wish that you would. But don’t kill human beings! Don’t interfere with them. Even if they kill each other! Give them time to see this new vision realized; give the cities of the West, corrupt as they may be, time to take their ideals to a suffering and blighted world.” – Louis de Pointe du Lac, Queen of the Damned
I kept glancing at him and away from him, as if his green eyes were hurting me. In modern parlance he was a laser beam. Deadly and delicate he seemed. His victims had always loved him. And I had always loved him, hadn’t I, no matter what happened, and how strong could love grow if you had eternity to nourish it, and it took only these few moments in time to renew its momentum, its heat?
The Queen of the Damned (1988)
Stupidly I stared at him. How perfect he seemed to me as he stood there waiting with such kindness and such patience. And then, like a fool, I came out with it. “Do you love me now?” I asked. He smiled; oh, it was excruciating to see his face soften and brighten simultaneously when he smiled. “Yes,” he said.
Prince Lestat (2014)
I kissed him. I pressed my lips to his and I held this kiss for a long silent moment. And then I gave in to a silent wave of feeling, and I took him in my arms. I held him tight against me. I felt his unmistakable silken skin, his soft shining black hair. I heard the blood throbbing in him, and time dissolved, and it seemed I was in some old and secret place, some warm tropical grotto we’d once shared, ours alone in some way, with the scent of sweet olive blossoms and the whisper of moist breeze. “I love you,” I whispered. In a low intimate voice, he answered: “My heart is yours.”
louis + lestat. die young. love forever.
@hyperbeeb: “Now matter how hard you ship Louis and Lestat you will never ship Louis and Lestat as hard as Lestat does.” [X]
It’s Armand and it’s actually canonand one of my favorite parts to visualize in QotD(although it’s honky-tonk not ragtime, but their styles are related) I mean, just imagine Daniel waking up to that, looking completely DONE.
Queen of the Damned, page 88
It’s update time! You were right
@i-want-my-iwtv in your assumption that Lestat would love it.
Now go ahead and imagine them dancing to these tunes.
#IT GOT BETTER
Thanks for the update, @luthi69! If anyone is in a bad mood, just TRY and keep that mood with this bouncy happy music on, JUST TRY.
And now I AM imagining Lestat, Daniel, and Armand paying a jazz band to play this all night at a club in NOLA, dancing to it w/ people and having such a good time ❤
So Louis’ emotional connection to Lestat, and the fact that it wasn’t really visible in IWTV.
The really short answer is that I believe in Louis’ love for Lestat so much that I can’t quite pinpoint the evidence for it! I think it’s from reading further books and seeing Louis from other ppls’ POV, who can describe his love better than he might be able to admit.
“Louis, the watcher, the patient one, was there on account of love pure and simple. The two had found each other only last night, and theirs had been an extraordinary reunion. Louis would go where Lestat led him. Louis would perish if Lestat perished.” – Khayman, Queen of the Damned.
TL;DR: You gonna have to read The Vampire Lestat to get that connection.
These are actually pretty appropriate here:
So, yes, I think you’re somewhat right when you say that in book!IWTV and movie!IWTV, it seems like the only feelings Louis has for Lestat are:
a “range from hatred
to disinterest,
to pity,
with no real love besides the initial wonder.”
Louis is baffled by a lot of the things Lestat does in IWTV, he disagrees with Lestat’s philosophy (which is unclear in IWTV in both versions), and until Claudia rebels against their maker, Louis stays with Lestat because YES, he is still fascinated with him, he doesn’t know of any other vampires, and he’s sure he can pull more of the mysteries of life out of Lestat about vampiring, and his place in the scheme of things (whether vampires work for God or Satan is a big question).
^At the end of IWTV, Louis does meet up with a very incapacitated Lestat. Lestat says in the next book that this scene never happened.
Whether they met like this or not, Louis clearly is “empty” at the end of IWTV, and he wants to find Lestat, but how’s he going to do that? Check the Yellow Pages? It would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
IWTV is like a Batsignal from Louis to Lestat to call him out of wherever he’s hiding. Some of the story is embellished (or maybe even invented) to paint Lestat as a bizarre antagonist. This is all to get him ANGRY ENOUGH to rise up out of hiding and FIND LOUIS. Whether to retaliate physically, and finally end Louis’ misery, or correct the record by putting out HIS side of the story, and everything he couldn’t tell Louis during IWTV.
Which is exactly what The Vampire Lestat is, and that’s why you need to read it ❤
I forgot to mention that there is some fanon that Louis had never been with a man romantically (or only with one) before Lestat, and being religious, that would have been a huge sin, too. As bad as killing? Idk, but high up there on the scale of being bad. So he may not want to admit to the gay feelings he has for Lestat, and has had, for the 70-some years they were together.
^I feel like, even though this is Claudia’s line, we’re watching Louis’ reaction bc he’s about to lose her, and he’s also thinking about how he’s lost Lestat ;A;
Louis does mention in IWTV missing Lestat when he and Claudia are free of him:
“I wanted to forget -him, and yet it seemed I thought of him always. It was as if the empty nights were made for thinking of him. And sometimes I found myself so vividly aware of him it was as if he had only just left the room and the ring of his voice were still there. And somehow there was a disturbing comfort in that… I wanted him alive!”
Lestat also tells us in TVL to read between Louis’ lines in IWTV:
“And why should I bother to tell of the times [Louis] came to me in wretched anxiety, begging me never to leave him, of the times we walked together and talked together, acted Shakespeare together for Claudia’s amusement, or went arm in arm to hunt the riverfront taverns or to waltz with the dark-skinned beauties of the celebrated quadroon balls?
Read between the lines.
… he told the truth about the eerie contentment he and Claudia and I shared…”
So Louis’ emotional connection to Lestat, and the fact that it wasn’t really visible in IWTV.
The really short answer is that I believe in Louis’ love for Lestat so much that I can’t quite pinpoint the evidence for it! I think it’s from reading further books and seeing Louis from other ppls’ POV, who can describe his love better than he might be able to admit.
“Louis, the watcher, the patient one, was there on account of love pure and simple. The two had found each other only last night, and theirs had been an extraordinary reunion. Louis would go where Lestat led him. Louis would perish if Lestat perished.” – Khayman, Queen of the Damned.
TL;DR: You gonna have to read The Vampire Lestat to get that connection.
These are actually pretty appropriate here:
So, yes, I think you’re somewhat right when you say that in book!IWTV and movie!IWTV, it seems like the only feelings Louis has for Lestat are:
a “range from hatred
to disinterest,
to pity,
with no real love besides the initial wonder.”
Louis is baffled by a lot of the things Lestat does in IWTV, he disagrees with Lestat’s philosophy (which is unclear in IWTV in both versions), and until Claudia rebels against their maker, Louis stays with Lestat because YES, he is still fascinated with him, he doesn’t know of any other vampires, and he’s sure he can pull more of the mysteries of life out of Lestat about vampiring, and his place in the scheme of things (whether vampires work for God or Satan is a big question).
^At the end of IWTV, Louis does meet up with a very incapacitated Lestat. Lestat says in the next book that this scene never happened.
Whether they met like this or not, Louis clearly is “empty” at the end of IWTV, and he wants to find Lestat, but how’s he going to do that? Check the Yellow Pages? It would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
IWTV is like a Batsignal from Louis to Lestat to call him out of wherever he’s hiding. Some of the story is embellished (or maybe even invented) to paint Lestat as a bizarre antagonist. This is all to get him ANGRY ENOUGH to rise up out of hiding and FIND LOUIS. Whether to retaliate physically, and finally end Louis’ misery, or correct the record by putting out HIS side of the story, and everything he couldn’t tell Louis during IWTV.
Which is exactly what The Vampire Lestat is, and that’s why you need to read it ❤
I-want-my-IWTV 