Full disclosure, I got this a little over a week ago, and I meant to reply sooner, but I was hanging onto it, just kinda hoarding it for the feels, I hope you still feel the same way 9 days later and at least one post about problematic stuff *laughcries*
I used to have a rule about asks, responding within 48 hours, and I’ll try to honor that again!
[By the way, I usually answer things with a relevant fanart/image/gif, but in this case, I think it’s too serious a topic for that.]
“And I sincerely apologize if I’ve offended you by asking the question.”
No offense taken, it’s a fair question!
I am a little wary that this is a bait set out by those who see things in RP/fiction as “promoting” something in real life. A bait set to invite the kind of anti-shippers who are looking for a way to tear me down regardless of how I respond, when all I ever want to promote is:
(And I’ll quote a relevant piece of it from @ozhawkauthor, but please read the whole post):
“Much (though not all) fandom is about shipping. There are as many possible ships as there are fans, maybe more. You may have an OTP (One True Pairing), you may have a NOTP, that pairing that makes you want to barf at the very thought of its existence.
It’s not up to you to police ships or to determine what other people are allowed to ship. Just because you find that one particular ship problematic or disgusting, does not mean that other people are not allowed to explore its possibilities in their fanworks.
You are free to create contrarian content, to write meta about why a particular ship is repulsive, to discuss it endlessly on your private blog with like-minded persons.
It is not appropriate to harass creators about their ships, it is not appropriate to demand they do not create any more fanworks about those ships, or that they create fanwork only in a manner that you deem appropriate.
These three laws add up to the following:
You are not paying for fanworks content, and you have no rights to it other than to choose to consume it, or not consume it. If you do choose to consume it, do not then attack the creator if it wasn’t to your taste. That’s the height of bad manners.
Be courteous in fandom. It makes the whole experience better for all of us.”
I want to make it very clear that I’m answering this as someone who supports exploring dark themes and taboo topics in fiction/RP. As long as you are not violating real living person’s rights, or invading any real living person’s space*, then you are doing nothing wrong.
I’ve been blocked. I try to tag for things that can be triggering/upsetting to others, but I will not self-censor to appease everyone, so I absolutely support ppl unfollowing/blocking me if what I post makes them uncomfortable.
*Posting your fic/RP with the appropriate warning tags is a form of respecting others’ space and rights. If they don’t like your writing, they can block you, too. Their dashboard is their responsibility.
“I want to do a thread, but I don’t want to trigger anyone or make it look all grim and incestuous.”
I think grim and incestuous could be very interesting to explore; not every fic/RP can be a fluffy Coffee Shop AU!
Re: Concern about triggering anyone, I’ll repeat myself, it is everyone’s responsibility to curate their own fandom experience and as long as you are tagging and putting content under cuts, it is their responsibility to protect themselves. If they are incapable of that, then they should ask a trusted person to monitor their internet use.
People are triggered by many things, not just taboo and darker themed writing. This person’s triggers are Jello, Popsicles, Soup Broth, please read it! And to quote from that post, “a lot of ‘activists’ on tumblr aren’t looking to actually help anyone or make anything better: they’re sadists cruising for new victims.”
TL; DR: Anon, do what you and your partner are comfortable doing.** If RPing it as a ship squicks you both out, don’t do it. If Rping it as a ship is exciting to you both and you want to explore that taboo, go for it! Just be sure to tag it with the right warnings, and add cuts so that ppl will be protected from content they may not want to see.You can also RP privately however you like, there is no rule that says RP must be done publicly.
**If your RP partner is pressuring you to RP something you are uncomfortable with, then I would suggest not RPing that with them, and similarly, if you are pressuring your RP partner to RP something they are uncomfortable with, I would suggest not pressuring them into it.
Hit the jump for my response, cut for length, and discussion about possible incest between fictional characters.
“I’m going to be roleplaying with someone and they want to do a mother/son relationship, like not in the usual way.”
Is there a “usual way” to RP? If you’re suggesting in the ship way, it is something I’m sure exists.
Ppl RP with canon in mind, or without it.
“Like, what is the ACTUAL relationship between Gabrielle and Lestat? What is it really?”
That is a question with a ton of landmines, so I’m not going to say that they are definitely a ship or definitely not, it’s up to the individual reader/RPer to decide based on their reading of canon, or diverge from canon and write the characters however they see fit. This kind of exploration is one of many ways to engage with the characters and I see nothing wrong with canon-compliant or not canon-compliant writing, either way.
Personally, I can see both sides of the argument.
>>Not as a ship: There are some who see them purely as a mother and a son, and DEFINITELY nothing more. She does come to his rescue at the rock concert (how did she know to go to him? She has telepathy, but being his fledgling, she cannot read Lestat’s mind; she could have picked up the warnings from other vampires, or Louis might have contacted her), there are several times in canon when she asserts herself in an authoritative manner. She’s protective of him when he’s in a coma, and she slaps some sense into him when necessary. All these things can be filed under “motherly.”
It’s easy to not ship them, so I don’t really need to provide further canon evidence, they are, biologically, mother and son! There’s nothing more to add to that.
>>As a ship, Unpopular Opinion: one could argue that they can be shipped, because:
A) He becomes her maker, which changes their relationship to him being more of the “parent.”
– During the initial phase of Lestat turning Gabrielle in TVL, as he’s taking her life, he says she’s no longer his mother (to be fair, this is the kind of intimacy a vampire feels when feeding on anyone, but still, worth mentioning):
My
knowledge dimmed and flickered and there was no mother anymore,
no petty need and petty terror; she was simply who she was. She was
Gabrielle.
– Then, once she’s turned, she insists on being called by her name instead of “Mother,” so some take that as proof that she doesn’t see herself as being his mother anymore, in the mortal sense of the word.
B) The act of making a vampire is extremely intimate, it has been compared to childbirth. It’s the most intimate act a vampire can share with anyone. I believe in fanon that it creates a physiological bond between maker and fledgling, so one could extrapolate to say that the act itself could create a ship.
Note: In most maker/fledgling relationships, there is some assumption that turning the fledgling is done to bind maker and fledgling as a ship; essentially making the fledgling into a companion for the maker and the maker into a companion for the fledgling. In this case, Lestat turned Gabrielle in order to save her life, not knowing if he would even survive the act, so I don’t think this was a factor here, neither of them necessarily intending to be in a relationship together, but the physiological bond discussed above would still be a possibility.
Also worth mentioning is that he asks for her consent, as he had not been asked for consent himself, and the question is very clear:
No words again, just the silent thrust of it, and the question, more immense than could ever be put into words, Do you want to come with me now? DO YOU WANT TO COME WITH ME INTO THIS NOW? I hide nothing from you, not my ignorance, not my fear, not the simple terror that if I try I might fail. I do not even know if it is mine to give more than once, or what is the price of giving it, but I will risk this for you, and we will discover it together, whatever the mystery and the terror, just as I’ve discovered alone all else. With her whole
being she said Yes.
^This could be construed as him wanting her for a companion and her agreeing to it.
C) LET’S TALK ABOUT SEX. This is a point of debate for many fans, whether the Ricean vampires can have penetrative sex. In my opinion, in canon they cannot, and while penetrative sex is NOT A REQUIREMENT to a relationship (there are relationships where there is no penetrative sex and they are no less valid than those which do have it, in my opinion), the incestuous aspect of a Lestat/Gabrielle ship is alot less squicky for me knowing that they aren’t able to literally bone in the mortal way. Some would argue that the bloodsharing is more intimate than penetrative sex, and that’s fine, but still, being unable to literally bone is just so much less squicky, in my opinion. But ppl made fanart of essentially that and it was still very funny, to me!
Call it what you will, but the first bloodkiss shared in canon is between Lestat and Gabrielle on the night she is turned.
^^^ALL THAT SAID, I wouldn’t shoot anyone down who ships it, they are both adult fictional characters. One could argue that there is some canon evidence to support it, but canon evidence is unnecessary.
Again, Anon, do what you and your partner are comfortable doing. If RPing it as a ship squicks you both out, don’t do it. If Rping it as a ship is exciting to you both and you want to explore that taboo, go for it! Just be sure to tag it with the right warnings, and add cuts so that ppl will be protected from content they may not want to see. You can also RP privately however you like, there is no rule that says RP must be done publicly.
If your RP partner is pressuring you to RP something you are uncomfortable with, then I would suggest not RPing with them, and similarly, if you are pressuring your RP partner to RP something they are uncomfortable with, I would suggest not pressuring them into it.
(Oh, I would think Lestat might bottom more often in Lestat/Nicolas fics, try searching for that pairing on AO3! You’re welcome, re: that one fic I rec’d, I hope you like it, even though it does come with a lot of warnings.)
Thank u for loving this blargh! Much appreciated <333
I don’t know of any in the sense of the BDSM term “submissive,” I know of only one in which he is more of a “bottom” at one point…
One Night in New Orleans by iskra667– L/L angst, fluff, warning: it explores some darker themes and contains dubious consent. Somnophila, too, so it would count as nonconsent.
I’ve read, I think, alot of VC fanfic and Lestat being more of a “bottom” is pretty rare? He’s usually more of a pitcher than a catcher. I headcanon that he really only “bottomed” for Nicki when he was mortal, and as a vampire, he currently “switches” with Louis, and David, separately, sometimes. But the BDSM term “submissive,” idk about him doing that.
Anon, you could write some *nudges*
Anyone is welcome to write some, and/or share links to fic (on AO3 and tumblr only, please).
Some thoughts on this under the cut, cut for length.
It is, admittedly, always fun to deride Lestat for this
screwup
decision when Marius (for all his own f*cked-upedness, he does have a little decent advice to give at various points) specifically told him: DO. NOT. TURN CHILDREN. INTO VAMPIRES. EXCEEDINGLY NOT COOL.
In TVL, Lestat says he wanted to do it just because he wanted to see what would happen:
^I don’t think this is the reason (or at least not the MAIN reason), I think this is Lestat’s bravado, and knowing that he’s writing the book FOR LOUIS, really, knowing Louis is going to be reading it, and this is the answer he’s putting out there to make himself look that much more callous, bc the real answer is too painful to share.
Someone (she’s not on tumblr, I’d tag her if she was) once suggested that Lestat made Claudia to keep Louis’ conscience clear; after all, Lestat is essentially ‘saving’ her from death. The line in the movie is, “Your conscience is clear.” If Louis had actually killed a child (a Holy Innocent!) that night, it would have been the worst crime he’d committed in vampiring, and Lestat didn’t want Louis to bear that burden of guilt. Louis might have even felt guilty enough to kill himself over it, also something Lestat did not want to happen.
So I think Lestat would prefer that Louis think of this as just another gross, horrible act to add to the list of gross, horrible things Lestat has done, and he’d prefer that we write him off as an antagonist, which is easier than being confronted with what he does and why he does it.
I know it’s a bit of a reach, but I feel like Lestat admitting that he made a child into a vampire, knowing it was a crime against nature, and condemning her to the body she was turned in, was a sacrifice he made to prevent Louis from bearing the guilt of her death, it’s all too painful, and could invite questions about it, and he just can’t let anyone in that close.
I understand that it’s a very problematic book, but this is also why I can’t throw the entirety of TOBT out, because Claudia comes back to haunt Lestat to confront him with the decision of turning her. He reflects on it off and on throughout the book and finally admits that even knowing what he knows now, he would still do it all over again, and that’s taking into account the joy they all experienced as a little family, but also the pain and suffering she felt as she became aware of the trap of her own body.
^The pixellation here makes this look like a video game. Could u imagine a VC videogame??! I’m visualizing a scenario like Super Smash Bros. w/ Lestat vs. Armand… or Louis & Claudia playing on a team vs.Vagabond European Vampire No. 73….
Also, lots of creative murders like the Fire Gift and the Explodey-Heart-Gift on mortals.
It’s a touchy subject, recommending blogs, as inevitably I’ll leave someone out and then they may feel, well, LEFT OUT :-
I don’t follow as many RP blogs as I used to, it was too much to keep up with the various threads, some have gone inactive, new ones have started up… All attempts to make VC directories usually fail.
However, and that said, so you know I’m not playing favorites, there are some I remember by name, and so I tagged them below, but this is an incomplete list. Let’s make this an Ask Armand and Armand RPer roundup! People Off The Page, reblog/comment with any Ask Armand and Armand RPer blog I left out 😉
(in no special order, active-status not guaranteed):
I-want-my-IWTV 