*hugs* I know your pain! Both were very hard things to put us through. I still remember how I felt when I first read *that part* in Merrick and I was like:
And then we didn’t even get the scene w/ Lestat… um… continuing to save the day night? C’MON.
(I still think Merrick would have been a far better story told from Merrick herself or Louis rather than being told to us through a 3rd wheel; oh well, it is what it is.)
BUT ANYWAY We have Louis back! I can’t see AR doing something like this to us again re: Louis or Armand bc the current trend is everybody getting along and living in peace, basically. I’m expecting more action from the Replimoids or the ghosts in the next book, or maybe a VC wedding between L/L like she’s teased before (and I only really want it if Lestat is a total bridezilla) but WHO KNOWS?
So I don’t think she’s going to do anything like this again to our faves but clearly nothing is off-limits, no one is really safe, so we’ll all just have to wait ‘n seeeee and get each other through whatever it is…
IDK that AR herself considers Merrick to be canon bc it’s not in the Official VC FB banner (it’s a hybrid VC/Mayfair) so if you wanted to just not accept it as canon that’s fine, too.
I don’t know the real reason, I don’t know anyone who does. I don’t know if it was Anne Rice’s choice, or Neil Jordan’s.
I think there were a lot of factors that went into that decision, and it stirs up alot of issues and questions, alot has been written about it and alot more can be written about it!
TL;DR: 1) I think it was done to cut time, Louis being distraught about losing a wife and child is immediately understandable to anyone who hasn’t read the books. It starts off the film with Louis questioning the reasons of a God that could punish him for seemingly no reason at all.*
2) The other main issue is whether Louis is/was straight or if he actually was bisexual/homosexual/etc. as a mortal and Lestat entering the picture and pulling Louis into vampiring made it possible for Louis to let go of his preconceived ideas and social/religious/etc. repression and accept himself for what he really was. Neil Jordan probably wanted that left open-ended and unanswered.
(*It could have set up the whole Louis-frustrated-about-how-religion-plays-into-vampiring, but that was cut from the film, too.)
1) One of the audiobook recordings for IWTV has a runtime of 14 hours and 28 minutes [X] and that’s ALOT OF STORY to condense down into a movie that can’t be that long. Scenes have to be cut.
The movie we got is 2 hours long, and in 1994, I seem to remember movies being more in the 1.5 hour range. Titanic, clocking in at a little over 3 hours long, was kind of ridiculed by the critics for that lengthy runtime. These days, a 2-3 hour movie is not really as big a deal.
Building in the right amount of time/scenes to show the circumstances of Paul’s death and why Louis felt so responsible for it, that would have increased the runtime and delayed the amount of time we get to the actual vampiring. I can’t check the film right now but I think Lestat appears within the first 15 minutes of the movie, for good reason. To get the vampiring STARTED.
2)
In 1994, same-sex marriage was legal in zero states. Now it is the law of the land. Movie!IWTV was already pushing the envelope to suggest that Louis/Lestat were in a romantic relationship together. So, if Louis starts his story as having been married to a woman, it would appear that he’s established as being straight. On the surface.
HOWEVER! this is a Neil Jordan movie, and one of his previous movies, the Crying Game, Jordan had gender issues and sexual orientations as main concerns, so perhaps starting Louis off as SEEMING TO BE STRAIGHT and then having Lestat swoop in and now Louis is “with” Lestat somehow, experiences that moment of intense intimacy when he is given the Dark Gift… so Jordan seems to be asking the audience if Louis was actually bisexual or homosexual as a mortal and suppressed it? Since we never see Louis and Lestat actually make love on screen (aside from the Dark Gift happening), does it still count as a homosexual relationship?
^I think Neil Jordan wanted these questions left open-ended, and for that to be part of the exquisite torture that is the Louis/Lestat ship. Is it platonic or romantic? Jordan isn’t telling, and neither is Louis.
There is, as I said, a lot more to it than that, but these are the main issues that come to mind for me, and I’m also trying to be concise. Anyone can reblog/comment with more ideas.
Hello! I have thought about this, probably thought about it TOO much… and while I don’t a clear answer, it’s a stimulating question:
Was this young ‘nurse’ vampire a fledgling of Lestat’s?
^How does the old fandom joke go? Every time X sound occurs, Lestat makes another fledgling? *facepalm*
I agree w/ your point about re: Antoine, it seems like Lestat or Antoine would have confirmed that it was in fact Antoine who was the unnamed young vampire in that scene in IWTV.
TL;DR: We have unreliable narrators** in BOTH Lestat and Louis*. I personally don’t think that the unnamed ‘nurse’ vampire in this scene was made by Lestat, but it’s quite possible! Lestat has never mentioned him again in canon, but we might find out about him in the next novel.
Hit the jump for more, cut for length.
This is an excerpt from the scene
in IWTV (the book, not in the movie) w/ the unnamed young vampire @terryfphanatics is asking about:
“Because shortly after that I saw a vampire in New Orleans, a sleek white-faced young man walking alone on the broad sidewalks of St. Charles Avenue…” (this mystery vampire kills a woman and takes her baby to a shabby old house where he meets up with Lestat) “My eyes widened as I studied this stooped and shivering vampire whose rich blond hair hung down in loose waves covering his face…
… “ ‘You all leave me!’ [Lestat] whined now in a thin, high-pitched voice.
‘You can’t keep us with you!’ said the stiff young vampire sharply.”
(Louis taps at the window)
…“ ‘It’s Louis! Louis!’ [Lestat] said. `Let him in’ And he gestured frantically, like an invalid, for the young `nurse’ to obey. … and I could see the tears welling in his eyes…How baffling and awful it was, this smoothfaced, shimmering immortal man bent and rattled and whining like a crone.”
So yes, Lestat might have made this ‘nurse’ vampire as Marius made Bianca, a dedicated fledgling vampire to help him in his recovery.
As with the previously unnamed musician vampire in IWTV – who later became known as Antoine in PL – I used to headcanon that
Lestat couldn’t bear to even mention the musician vampire’s name in later canon bc he was either A) an embarrassment to Lestat or B) that they had broken up violently, C) both, D) the musician vampire had really been killed by Claudia, or E) other reasons. This unnamed young ‘nurse’ vampire might fall under A, B, C, or E. Or maybe someone else has killed him since then *shrugs*
When Lestat says: ‘You all leave me!’ – ;A; This could be about his fledglings, bc, yes, when you take TVL into account, up to this point in canon all four have chosen to leave him: Gabrielle, Nicolas, Louis & Claudia (at this point in canon, the unnamed musician vampire appeared to have been destroyed). Armand’s warnings to Lestat about making fledglings
in TVL are relevant:
“Oh, but it’s always a travesty, don’t you see?… And the veil will always come down between you. Make a legion. You will be, always and forever, alone!
If the ‘nurse’ vampire was not made by Lestat: It also would have been possible for a rogue vampire to find Lestat, perceive that he was an older vampire, and might have wisdom or power, or the rogue had heard of the legendary Lestat, and come in search of him purposely. I feel like this is more likely given how beaten down Lestat was from the assassination attempt and his survival of the Theatre des Vampires in such close proximity.
THEN we have THIS (also from IWTV, prior to the scene excerpted above):
“[Armand] told me something he’d concealed from me since the time we were in Paris.
“Lestat had not died in the Theatre des Vampires. I had believed him to be dead, and when I asked Armand about those vampires, he told me they all had perished. But he told me now that this wasn’t so. Lestat had left the theater the night I had run away from Armandand sought out the cemetery in Montmartre. Two vampires who had been made with Lestat by the same master had assisted him in booking passage to New Orleans.”
^Like…. WHAT?
Maybe Armand had heard it through the grapevine that Lestat had these two caretakers, but since Lestat never mentions having siblings in the blood from Magnus, it’s possible that Armand is lying so that Louis thinks Lestat already has enough support and doesn’t need a THIRD caretaker.
Or, of course, Anne Rice either A) forgot about these two sibling vampires or B) chose not to address them. They would probably both have been too old to be the “young nurse vampire” but… MAYBE WE’LL GET THEM IN THE NEXT BOOK WHO KNOWS? Anything! is possible!
*Further complicated by the fact that Louis’s story went through Daniel and Daniel’s publishers, who may have added misinformation of their own for a better story! Reprehensible that this young vampire would bring Lestat a baby as a victim, but in Lestat’s defense, he doesn’t want it: “ ‘You might have brought me something else!’ said Lestat bitterly.”
undiagnosed type II bipolar (is that grammatically correct? Or would you write “Yes, it’s quite possible that Lestat is undiagnosed as having type II bipolar personality disorder”?). You might want to ask some Lestat RPers for their thoughts on this, too.
I don’t know enough about diagnosing bipolar to say for sure what I think, in the past I’ve written that I didn’t think Lestat was bipolar specifically, but that he might have PTSD. Now, I feel like I don’t know enough about either of those to make a definitive statement. I don’t think AR has ever addressed it in any interviews, on FB, or at a booksigning. Anyone is welcome to reblog/comment on this post.
Anon: “I’ve noticed the same patterns in him that I see in myself, and it makes it hard to read the books recently because he is so chaotic in such an eerily familiar way that it unsettles me.”
I’m sorry that this makes it hard for you to read the books recently, Anon. Does anyone else out there have bipolar, or specifically type II bipolar, and have advice for Anon about this?
The reason I love Only Lovers Left Alive is it shows that a character (Adam) can be severely mentally ill, in this case depressed and suicidal, and still be seen as lovable and capable of being loved and loving in return without being “cured” of their mental illness, and that a mentally ill character can have other attributes aside from being mentally ill while still showing the impact being mentally ill has on his personality.
Adam from OLLA is an extremely important character to me you guys.
First of all: “Casting Stress™” ? ACCEPTED. New tag.
RE: “Like, everyone in this fandom has a different headcanon and goddamit that’s tricky!” That’s an understatement, lol. Even AR has a different headcanon than we do, apparently. Reconciling all our headcanons is highly unlikely, but it’s great that we have Tom’s Lestat as evidence that the actor CAN win ppl over based on their acting (and the rest of the cast & crew’s efforts**) to overcome their physical non-compliance re:
headcanon.
Obviously I’m also very attached to Tom Cruise’s Lestat, I feel ya there ❤
TL;DR: I would hope that whoever gets cast will give it their professional best AND win us over as best they can, have a whole team supporting them well, and a director/showrunner with a clear vision. It’s not all on the new Lestat’s shoulders. It’s a team effort.
Hit the jump for a little more.
And I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again: I’d love to have him train the new Lestat, or at least be available as an adviser, but a new actor will probably want to stake their own claim on the character, like Heath Ledger made his own Joker w/o Jack Nicholson’s advice (I don’t think they talked about it). Different Jokers, different films. Gonna be a different Lestat for a different adaptation.
What made Tom’s Lestat so great? A lot of factors had to come together but mainly, he did his homework, he had read at least the first three books (maybe the 4th, too), he practiced reading aloud from books from the time period the character lived in, watched videos of lions attacking prey (yes they used to show that kinda thing on TV!), etc., and did a lot of that work on his own. I see it in the tags pretty often that ppl who dislike Tom in general loved him in this role.
**But more than his own work, he had a director* with a clear vision and a full cast and crew supporting that vision. Every department contributed to his (and the film’s) success, makeup, costume, set design, special fx, music, etc., it all harmonized in the end. I’m not saying it was the BEST FILM OF EVER, but it was a successful adaptation in my opinion, and I’m not the only one of that opinion. I’ve been told publicly and privately that that adaptation was the gateway drug to many ppl reading the books, so in that sense, it was successful!
*Apparently Neil Jordan was responsible for most of the comedy that got into the script, mostly in Lestat’s dialogue/actions. It was Neil’s idea to add that ending, which was more upbeat than the original ending (which was the book’s ending). That’s an example of a director making a choice that deviated from canon and it working out (admittedly, it would have caused canon continuity issues for a sequel). I’m sure there are ppl who would still prefer the canon ending, but the majority of opinions I’ve seen/heard have been that ppl liked the changed ending.
Yeah, I almost fell for that article at first. @sanguinivora made a post about it. I would reblog it, but I don’t 100% agree with it, still, it has some very good points. Definitely worth reading and considering.
(Ageism… I don’t know about AR’s age being a factor in any of this, we can only speculate. I’m not commenting on that.)
I’m with you re: I hope the VC TV series is as true to canon as possible, that it gives us some positive representation of LGBTQIA+ relationships/characters or encourages critical thinking and discussion of the (for lack of a better word) problematic aspects.
…I don’t know about your grandma, maybe she would be an awesome scriptwriter! One of my grandmas was very open minded and she might have done well at this.
Like, I’m not even making a joke here, this lady here in the stock image is so thrilled, sittin’ there at her laptop, and it warms my heart a little! What is she gonna write?
(2/2) And now that I think about it I might try some A/L art. I drew Armand once and it actually turned out pretty good. I always appreciate what you say. You offer extremely helpful advice (:
You’re so very welcome! (Anon refers to this post) <333
It’s great that you recognize that you are a very good writer when
you’ve got good ideas and when you try. Yes, burnout is a very real thing that can happen when doing smtg for a class for so long… both with writing and arting. Lemme tell ya, if you can push past the start-up inertia, it gets easier. There will be ebbs and flows of your writing/arting/etc. muses, that’s totes normal and fine.
(^Don’t listen to this guy, that’s a false dichotomy, Do the thing.)
I’m also an artist who’s wayyyy out of practice with drawing. I really need to take a figure drawing class and have that experience of a teacher guiding me and the inspiration of being with classmates. I don’t think I’d be at risk of burnout as much since those classes only meet 1-2x/week, thankfully.
BUT ANYWAYYYY. Here’s an old chibi Lestat I did in MS Paint, drawn with a mouse, and I purposely did it that way bc I didn’t want to take it too seriously. I could blame it on MS Paint that it has crappy lines and basic colors, and I could blame it on the mouse that the lines aren’t as smooth as they could be w/ a tablet. Despite those limitations, I think it turned out well and I really like it for what it is. It felt good just to do it.
^His expression was pretty much my own expression as I was drawing it. LOOK HE EVEN HAS VIOLET-BLUE EYES.
YES so do it! Draw the A/L fanart, and please share with us, if you feel comfortable doing so. We have an insatiable thirst for more fanart, but especially pairings like that that which don’t get as much attention.
I always appreciate what you say. You offer extremely helpful advice (:
That really means alot to me and I am so glad to help, your message really made me smile (ppl are going to think I sent this to myself! So you better come back here, off-anon, w/ your writing/fanart/ideas!) *hugs*
I feel ya! We need more Lestat/Armand fanfic and fanart! #FANFIC REQUEST #FANART REQUEST. With and without lots of sex(ual tension) and all amounts of angst and fluff <333 and yes, @monstersinthecosmos is one of my fave fanfic writers, too.
BTW, I have one short Lestat/Armand fic on AO3… *scoots this link in…* since you’re thirsty for A/L…
A Brief Reprieve–After the events of Prince Lestat, Lestat reflects on certain aspects of his new spirit animal, snuggled up lovingly with Armand by a fire in winter. Slightly AU in that they are snuggled up together lovingly by a fire in winter!
[^Here’s a fanart of A/L for you, source unknown, even reverse-image searched. Tell me the source if you know it!]
Anon, hey, if you’re in creative writing class, then you’re learning, you’re starting out *u* You could be a writer of 10/10 A/L ff yourself someday. The laziness you feel might be more of a fear of failure; I recognize that’s what laziness is for me when I have a mountain of fanworks I intend to do and I’d just rather… y’know… rewatch an episode of the Walking Dead.
ANYWAY Lestat and Armand have referred to eachother in canon as being brothers of a sort, so I tag them #murder brothers, if you want more Lestat/Armand action in my blargh.
Writing can suck at any time: whether you’re just starting out or even when you’re a published author, but there can also be good stuff nestled in among the suck, and like I was often told about drawing, you have to get a ton of bad drawings out before you can get to the good ones. With writing, it’s plot bunnies you want, and good turns of phrase, good dialogue… Then you have to nurture your plot bunnies, and encourage them to multiply by spending time and effort feeding them or talking about them with others. It’s also like exercise, at least for me. It’s a habit/muscle that needs training and attention. It’s been enormously helpful for me to have @wicked-felina as a collaborator, bc we do push eachother to be productive ❤ Your class is probably doing that!
I personally feel like everyone can write, whether you write superficial or deep topics or anything in between, it’s all wanted in fandom. We just had a post going around about VC characters playing Dungeons & Dragons(an anon asked @monstersinthecosmos about that and others jumped in, so yes, that’s pretty superficial, but it’s still something the fandom wants to speculate about! Who knows, a fanfic about that could lead to the exploration of deeper issues.
More on writing under the cut, cut for length.
For me, writing is about 1 or more of these basic setups, sometimes combined and interwoven:
^Now there are alot more things going on than that in that book, lots of interwoven issues that are and are not affected by this main plot.
With writing, at least for me, I like to ask What would Louis/Lestat/etc. think about X situation, place, etc.? Even something as superficial as dessert. Would Armand be jealous that he didn’t get to try some of the really fancy desserts that we have these days like water cake? Would he buy them and prod at them anyway? Would he read food reviews just to try to experience this stuff or not care at all? And so much the better if it DOES lead to something at least a little deeper like Yes, that’s why he made mortal!Daniel try everything on a menu and describe it in detail, he was living vicariously through Daniel. Writing can let you explore superficial and deeper topics.
As far as the smut, I feel you on that, I haven’t written much in that category either. I’ve read some amazing smut so my bar for that is set very high (and I have alot of pet peeves about the writing of it), but someday I’ll conquer that, too. The thing with smut is, is there a point? Is it PWP (”porn w/o plot” or “plot, what plot?”)? Or is it the consensual culmination of a slow burn of like 10k words? Is it a power struggle (Like with that kind of sexual scene between Lestat and Armand in TVL when Armand bites Lestat w/o asking first)? Is it the story of someone’s first time and the awkwardness that might surround that? So smut can be considered a topic like any other, and can be explored like any other.
Anon, don’t be so hard on yourself, start slow, dip your toe in, look at fic you love and try to figure out what makes it so good for you! Don’t be afraid to fail.
^idk if this is a real Mick Jagger quote but I bet Lestat would say smtg similar.
I don’t know much about Mick Jagger as a person other than some familiarity w/ his music and stuff*, but I definitely think Lestat would have a similar stage thing going on, the rockstar behavior, the fashion would be compatible (Lestat will forever mourn the fact that he missed out on the fashion of the 60′s and 70′s), Lestat would be impressed at the length of Mick’s… career (what did you think I was gonna write?!), and I do think Lestat would dig the logo, except, y’know, he’d add the fangs:
*idk if there’s anything problematic with Mick, please don’t jump on me about that, bc I don’t know, I’m only speaking to his stage persona.
Personally, idk if he’s really that compatible with the description anymore for my headcanon, either as young mortal David or David 2.0 (*if you catch my drift, y’know, David Talbot at the end of TOBT) but I’d love to screentest him as a Talamasca agent, or a vampire, maybe Santino? He’s only 37 yrs old, still plenty of life in him yet!
He’s also been a model for Dolce & Gabbana, which I headcanon as one of Lestat’s fave fashion labels.
I-want-my-IWTV 