Thank you for the very well thought out answer. I really enjoyed it. I did have another question (if I may), in general, how do we as a base know what is unreliable information or not when it comes to our narrators because from what I’ve always gathered, they have the earnest desire to convey the truth as they can see it. Armand sure, cannon liar, but Louis in IWTV had nothing but genuine intention and no reason to lie. Thank you for your time, you’re awesome ^^

You’re so welcome, glad you enjoyed it! Answering asks is so much fun for me, it makes me consider my own current and previous thoughts, sometimes I even ask around privately for more ideas… and try to write it out as best I can, it gives me an excuse to make fresh gifs/memes, sometimes it inspires others to make fanworks… and I always like to hear back from the original asker that the effort was appreciated *u* ((No, you only get one question per quarter. Pffft. Of course you can ask more!))

“in general, how do we as a base know what is unreliable information or not when it comes to our narrators because from what I’ve always gathered, they have the earnest desire to convey the truth as they can see it.”

You would think that, but just like in real life, people can narrate a story for their own motivations.

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TL;DR:

The characters telling their stories don’t always have the earnest desire to convey the truth, so it’s not always clear what the reliable information is! When we have accounts of the same event where the details align, that seems to be the best way to confirm it’s canon, bc even Anne Rice can’t always answer fan’s questions about canon stuff to everyone’s satisfaction. 

When there’s conflicting details, we have to rely on headcanons, which ppl can choose to agree on or not, hence the fandom phrase, #Your Headcanon May Vary.

For example of facts aligning: I think we can all agree that Armand was the unspoken leader at the Theatre des Vampires bc Lestat left him there in a position of authority in TVL, which is where Louis found him some 80 years later in IWTV, confirming that that was Armand’s role there.

In the scene above,

IDK at that point in canon whether Lestat believes in a God, but if not, he’s deliberately lying to Claudia, bc she’s never going to see her mother again. Even if he does believe in God, he still doesn’t know where his dead go! He’s trying to answer her in a way that will keep her calm and complacent. He knows Claudia’s mother is dead, he saw the corpse in the movie. But she is still a child and he doesn’t want to scare her or depress her, or make her feel guilty about killing, which she just did! 

I also think he’s a little taken aback bc she’s asking him for the whereabouts of her biological mother just minutes after he turned her into a vampire, a process that’s been compared to birth. It’s the most intimate act a vampire can experience. His smile falls right after she asks bc in a way it seems like he’s a deflated that she wants her biological mother, it’s like she’s already saying, “You’re not my REAL dad!” It might also remind him of his own mother who abandoned him ;A;

Re: Lestat P.1: In TVL, Lestat tells Armand: 

“I never lie,” I said offhand. “At least not to those I don’t love.” 

I’m still not 100% clear on this, bc of the double negatives. Can we translate it to “I’m honest with those I don’t love.” –>  “I lie to those I love.” ? He spent some 65 years lying by omission to Louis and Claudia about the other vampires, and all the secrets he knew. So who’s to say he doesn’t also lie to his readers, “those I don’t love” ? How much does he really love his readers? 

Re: Louis: I’ve always felt, and there are others who share this opinion, who gave me this opinion, that IWTV was dictated to Daniel from Louis with the intention of pissing Lestat off enough that he would rise from wherever he was hiding and find Louis. While I don’t think Louis intentionally LIED, I do think he might have embellished some things, exaggerated here and there, left out certain things, in order to achieve his goal. And it WORKED because…

Re: Lestat P.2: The Vampire Lestat was Lestat’s rebuttal to IWTV, containing all the secrets he couldn’t tell Louis during their time together, so I’m inclined to believe that Lestat earnestly wanted to correct the record and win Louis back, since he still loved Louis.

Re: Armand: TBH, I don’t know Armand’s story well enough, what I believe and what I don’t, in all of canon, to say that he’s a liar. I think, like Louis and Lestat, he embellishes, he lies by omission, and he tells people things when he wants a certain reaction out of them. He lied to his coven when he was a leader all those years since he never really believed in serving Satan. Or did he? It seems like he didn’t. 

There is a particular scene that Armand describes in TVA that is questionable, as to whether it happened.

How he tried to “help” Claudia the night she died (fanart by @sheepskeleton here, if you dare, it’s gorey). Personally, I sometimes believe it’s the truth bc Armand does like… experiments! But then I also remember how David was flirting excessively with Armand in that book, and so it’s possible that “this story was just something that Armand made up; somehow trying to intimidate the others, displaying the cruelty he could be capable of.” (quote from @annabellioncourt​)

Lestat: I like your new pants!
Louis: thanks, they were 50% off
Lestat: I’d like them a lot better if they were 100% off
Louis: the store can’t just give stuff away for free.
Lestat: that’s not what I meant
Louis: that’s a terrible way to run a business, Lestat.

In your opinion, who has the most/ least daddy issues in VC?

“Daddy issues” is an unfair term in real life bc it’s a judgment that carries different implications, either that someone is functioning badly bc of a bad relationship with their father, or that they had too good of a relationship with their father and are spoiled; etc.; there is a wide range, but it basically all boils down to the cheap jab: “That person has daddy issues.”

When I see that term used on fictional characters, it’s more about people outright shitposting or having a touch of dark humor (sometimes more than a touch!) because we know these characters are not real people, they’ll never actually hear us insulting them. And what’s intriguing to me about that term used in analysis or in canon about these characters is that sometimes it’s considered a huge fault, something you say to put a character down; but at other times, it’s a badge of honor that a character can function so well even carrying the burden of “daddy issues.” 

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[^ source unknown]

(530): THAT GUY IS NOTHING BUT TROUBLE. HE’S 40% PRETTY HAIR AND 60% DADDY ISSUES.

Loki and Tony Stark are great examples of fictional characters w/ “daddy issues,” bc they both had unhealthy relationships with their fathers and it was a very formative experience for them. They are very layered and intellectually stimulating characters, would they be this way if they’d had the benefit of better relationships with their fathers? Isn’t there a kind of catharsis in watching them struggle and battle through their demons in order to reach their goals? Isn’t there extra reward when we see them succeed despite the emotional burdens they bear? And especially when others taunt them about their “daddy issues” and they are strong in the face of that adversity, too? 

Google gives the definition of “Daddy issues” as:

“a pejorative for a lot of social, psychological or behavioral issues that may OR MAY NOT stem from an unhealthy relationship with one’s father. It’s usually used to marginalize issues women are having, though to be honest men are perfectly capable of having “daddy issues” too.”

I was asked this a few months ago and it’s a delicate subject bc, again, “daddy issues” is a pejorative, and therefore it can belittle/marginalize real people who have ‘social, psychological or behavioral issues that may OR MAY NOT stem from an unhealthy relationship with one’s father.’  

But since these are fictional characters I feel like we can discuss it without causing harm, and I would agree with @vampires-and-witches who had made commentary that Claudia would probably be the fictional character with the most daddy issues in VC [X]. 

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^And yet, in spite of her “daddy issues,” Claudia had persevered (at least, temporarily) when she thought she had killed her own dad/maker. As much as I love Lestat, he did have that coming to him, he deserved it, and he doesn’t even blame her for doing it. So when Claudia rose up and attacked the one who had wronged her the most? 12 year old me was thrilled, cheering her on! I wasn’t about to copy her and kill my parents *eyeroll* but what it showed me was the immense strength of character, someone who was at a great physical disadvantage, AND burdened with “daddy issues,” and yet she executed her plan entirely on her own and succeeded!

I will add that I think VC has a ton of terrible fictional parents (mortal/biological and vampiric/makers). Many are neglectful, abusive, manipulative, etc. or a combination. A terrible or absent parent/maker can affect someone’s future relationships with everyone they interact with. It’s those fictional characters who bear that burden and rise up and succeed (or at least keep trying!) despite it, those are some of the best characters in the series, in my opinion.

So I’ll open this up, anyone can reblog/comment about the characters with the most “daddy/maker issues”! 

Greetings! I’ve been advised to take my question to you ^^ At the end of IWTV, Louis talks about this young, newly made vampire that is mad at Lestat for not getting out of his chair (tries to feed him a baby). Now, this cannot be Antonie because that guy hadn’t seen Lestat from the late 1700s until 2014 when Prince Lestat came out. But as far as I can tell, this unnamed fledgling is never mentioned anywhere else. Do you think he slipped through the cracks and was just forgotten by Anne?

Hello! I have thought about this, probably thought about it TOO much… and while I don’t a clear answer, it’s a stimulating question: 

Was this young ‘nurse’ vampire a fledgling of Lestat’s? 

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^How does the old fandom joke go? Every time X sound occurs, Lestat makes another fledgling? *facepalm*

I agree w/ your point about re: Antoine, it seems like Lestat or Antoine would have confirmed that it was in fact Antoine who was the unnamed young vampire in that scene in IWTV.

TL;DR: We have unreliable narrators** in BOTH Lestat and Louis*. I personally don’t think that the unnamed ‘nurse’ vampire in this scene was made by Lestat, but it’s quite possible! Lestat has never mentioned him again in canon, but we might find out about him in the next novel.

Hit the jump for more, cut for length.


This is an excerpt from the scene

in IWTV (the book, not in the movie) w/ the unnamed young vampire @terryfphanatics is asking about:

“Because shortly after that I saw a vampire in New Orleans, a sleek white-faced young man walking alone on the broad sidewalks of St. Charles Avenue…” (this mystery vampire kills a woman and takes her baby to a shabby old house where he meets up with Lestat) “My eyes widened as I studied this stooped and shivering vampire whose rich blond hair hung down in loose waves covering his face…

… “ ‘You all leave me!’ [Lestat] whined now in a thin, high-pitched voice.

‘You can’t keep us with you!’ said the stiff young vampire sharply.”

(Louis taps at the window)

…“ ‘It’s Louis! Louis!’ [Lestat] said. `Let him in’ And he gestured frantically, like an invalid, for the young `nurse’ to obey. … and I could see the tears welling in his eyes…How baffling and awful it was, this smoothfaced, shimmering immortal man bent and rattled and whining like a crone.”

So yes, Lestat might have made this ‘nurse’ vampire as Marius made Bianca, a dedicated fledgling vampire to help him in his recovery. 

As with the previously unnamed musician vampire in IWTV – who later became known as Antoine in PL – I used to headcanon that

Lestat couldn’t bear to even mention the musician vampire’s name in later canon bc he was either A) an embarrassment to Lestat or B) that they had broken up violently, C) both, D) the musician vampire had really been killed by Claudia, or E) other reasons. This unnamed young ‘nurse’ vampire might fall under A, B, C, or E. Or maybe someone else has killed him since then *shrugs*

When Lestat says: ‘You all leave me!’ ;A; This could be about his fledglings, bc, yes, when you take TVL into account, up to this point in canon all four have chosen to leave him: Gabrielle, Nicolas, Louis & Claudia (at this point in canon, the unnamed musician vampire appeared to have been destroyed). Armand’s warnings to Lestat about making fledglings

in TVL are relevant: 

“Oh, but it’s always a travesty, don’t you see?… And the veil will always come down between you. Make a legion. You will be, always and forever, alone!


If the ‘nurse’ vampire was not made by Lestat: It also would have been possible for a rogue vampire to find Lestat, perceive that he was an older vampire, and might have wisdom or power, or the rogue had heard of the legendary Lestat, and come in search of him purposely. I feel like this is more likely given how beaten down Lestat was from the assassination attempt and his survival of the Theatre des Vampires in such close proximity.


THEN we have THIS (also from IWTV, prior to the scene excerpted above):

“[Armand] told me something he’d concealed from me since the time we were in Paris.

“Lestat had not died in the Theatre des Vampires. I had believed him to be dead, and when I asked Armand about those vampires, he told me they all had perished. But he told me now that this wasn’t so. Lestat had left the theater the night I had run away from Armand and sought out the cemetery in Montmartre. Two vampires who had been made with Lestat by the same master had assisted him in booking passage to New Orleans.”

^Like…. WHAT?

Maybe Armand had heard it through the grapevine that Lestat had these two caretakers, but since Lestat never mentions having siblings in the blood from Magnus, it’s possible that Armand is lying so that Louis thinks Lestat already has enough support and doesn’t need a THIRD caretaker. 

Or, of course, Anne Rice either A) forgot about these two sibling vampires or B) chose not to address them. They would probably both have been too old to be the “young nurse vampire” but… MAYBE WE’LL GET THEM IN THE NEXT BOOK WHO KNOWS? Anything! is possible!

*Further complicated by the fact that Louis’s story went through Daniel and Daniel’s publishers, who may have added misinformation of their own for a better story! Reprehensible that this young vampire would bring Lestat a baby as a victim, but in Lestat’s defense, he doesn’t want it: “ ‘You might have brought me something else!’ said Lestat bitterly.”

**And there’s also the unreliable narrator issue, there is some speculation as to whether this scene occurred at all, or that it occurred differently than Louis reported.

Gallery

merrycai:

I love this pic. Though they r not Lestat and Louis, they r Annatar and Celebrimbor. It’s vampire AU.
fanartist: 佑纸
original link: http://youzhidaizhebaoziqushangyue.lofter.com/post/1d0d1441_89ff592

Just out of curiosity, is there any books you recommend that have a similar humorous/ dark tone as VC?

Hey! Book reccs! Always a good topic.

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It’s tough for me to answer bc I think it depends on every individual reader’s sense of humor,… even within “humorous/ dark tone as VC” there is a range*. So I can’t say definitively that these reccs are in line with what you’re looking for necessarily, but you can use this list as a starting point.

*Lestat dancing w/ Claudia’s mom’s corpse: Some ppl find this moment dark and hilarious and other ppl think it’s just disgusting, so… there is a range. Personally I find it pretty amusing.

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(There are some duplicates on this list, sorry about that, but I wanted to list them by recc’er.) (And I added ** next to those that @gothiccharmschool​ just recc’d in two recent posts which I will reblog momentarily for you.)

In no special order:

  • (Okay this is the first one bc it IS special, and the closest to the humor of VC I’ve seen in awhile) This is a mockumentary/movie but it sneaks onto the top of the list bc it is just SO good, courtesy of @theamazingdrunk for reminding me in a comment on an older rec post:​ WHAT WE DO IN THE SHADOWS
  • **Salem’s Lot – Stephen King, personally, I find several Stephen King books to be darkly humorous, this one is a good one. I find humor in the Shining and Firestarter, too, but less so. 
  • Vittorio – don’t forget Vittorio. Not sure if you read this one. It’s also by Anne Rice and technically not a VC book, he has a different origin story and is not part of the VC vampire group.
  • Some short stories – @soyonscruels​ posted: those who dream only by night: the gothic short stories rec list – Not full-length books but still, short stories are good! There are 20 short stories listed, writers include @neil-gaiman​, Roald Dahl, Oscar Wilde, Edgar Allan Poe, each of whom I’ve found to have some level of humor along w/ dark tones.
  • More E. A. Poe is offered up here, from @keep-calm-and-heta-oni​, which includes little capsules about each.
  • @consultingcupcake​ said: “I really love the Cirque du Freak series, and **Lost Souls by Poppy Z Brite. Both have teenage protagonists
  • @fantasticfelicityfox​ said: The Historian is very good
  • @stitcheskitty​ said: Sookie Stackhouse novels
  • Movie and book (and a few anime) Recommendations here.

  • @riverofwhispers said: Carmilla is good
    Anita Blake and Sookie Stackhouse books, but only the early ones.
    the Rachel Morgan series but again starts out good gets weird later and it’s not about vampires so much as there are vampires in it.
  • @bluestockingcouture said: ‘The Angel’s Cut’, sequel to ‘The Vintner’s Luck’, is very atmospheric and well worth reading. Not quite as moving and intense, but there are some excellent new characters.
  • @sanguinivora said: Also, as to voice: IWTV opens in the late 1700’s/early 1800’s. Don’t know about either a southern American or French hinterlands-with-a-gloss-of-Parisian dialect, but for the grammar and vocabulary, one cannot go too far wrong looking to the novels of Jane Austen and Patrick O’Brian.
  • @dragontrainerdaenerys said: I just read Fevre Dream, George R.R Martin’s own vampire novel, and while I didn’t liked much his vampire mythology the main characters are charming! Besides, it’s set on the late 18XX and goes on the Mississipi River, so it has similar scenarios to IWTV!
  • @baroquebat said: Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, while futuristic, has a loooot of lovely gothic set pieces in the anime movie, plus its just gorgeous and has the rare treat of having a dhampir lead!

@annabellioncourt’s Recs, and these are mostly her descriptions, too, compiled from other recc posts:

  • The Bloody Chamber And Other Stories – Angela Carter
  • Carmilla Bunch of adaptations of this.
  • A Taste of Blood Wine –  Freda Warrinton, for romance and decadence.
  • **Blood Opera Sequence (or “Trilogy”?) –  Tanith Lee’s vampire series was out when Lestat was playing rockstar
  • Historian – Elizabeth Kostova, for its worldliness
  • **Fevre Dream (yes its spelled fevre) by George R. R. Martin (yes, its THAT Martin, and his take on vampires is Very Good.)
  • Sunshine by Robin McKinley
  • **The Delicate Dependency by Michael Talbot, also for romance and decadence. (the recently-published edition from Valancourt Books has a foreword by @gothiccharmschool!)
  • The Hunger by Whitley Scriber
  • **Dracula – Bram Stoker, for its stereotype-setting content
  • Lord Ruthven – Byronic vampire, Lestat doesn’t catch the irony of John Polidori’s mockery of the foppish, arrogant, and well…Lord-Byron-y vampire

>>>>Moar recs from @annabellioncourt​ under Spooky Book Recommendations

>>>>Moar recs from @gothiccharmschool: herehere, and in her #vampire books and #vampire novels tags. 

>>>>My #VC adjacent recs tag

Anyone is welcome to reblog/comment on this with other VC-adjacent book recs! 

@hyperbeeb (<– is very well-read and took one for the team to read Blood Vivicanti!), @gothiccharmschool, @fyeahgothicromance, @thebibliosphere, (@annabellioncourt, too, but you are technically off the hook as I’ve already posted your recs!), got any recs for books w/ similar humorous/ dark tone as VC? 

Gallery

evara-hargreaves:

the-temptation-of-amadeo:

Let’s talk about art! So many people in the VC community say we are not active enough, there are not enough fanfictions (mostly because it is forbidden) or fanarts. Dear, you are wrong and that is why I want to thank our wonderful artists making this tumblr community more alive than ever all around the world.

  1. @auricaedus
  2. @danyanddany
  3. @superhiki
  4. @fruitscake
  5. @jealizing
  6. @evara-hargreaves
  7. @monkeyelbow
  8. @sheepskeleton
  9. The legendary @garama
  10. @n2015n
    And many others

Dear artists, you are amazing and not only for your VC fanarts but for all your works, thank you for your contribution to the fandom

Go check their work!

Thank you!~

Kind of an “out there” question, and I’m unsure if anyone has asked, but how do you think Lestat would get along with Batman villains like, for example, Harley and Joker.

That is kind of an “out there” question, but intriguing! I’m sorry that I’m not familiar enough w/ the Batman villains to answer that

(here’s a wiki list), I’ve seen most of the movies but haven’t read the comics or had serious discussions about the characters, but I’ll open it up to the group. Anyone have answers for anon? @queenofthesavagegarden uses Margot Robbie as the FC for their genderbent Lestat muse, Lestel, and so that mun/muse may have opinions about how the recent Harley Quinn bears a striking resemblance to Lestel (or the other way around).

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^Here’s fanart of Marius and Armand dressed up as the Dynamic Duo by @askvampnesia (aka @vampirebarons​)

As a side thought: I headcanon that Lestat loves all the superhero movies, being a Sam Spade fan. Intellectually stimulating or just brawling or anything in between, he loves it all! I headcanon that, even though it was an older movie and thus lacking in the SFX we have today, Lestat really loved the Reeve!Superman where Superman was given the chance to give up his powers, and how that went very badly, and Superman had to then get them back in order to save the day.

Lestat would also probably have superhero costumes of his own and fly around in them. Would he wear a mask? Hmmm… Gonna need to see some costume ideas. #FANART REQUEST #FANFIC REQUEST.